4 ms·

Requirement was always there, just not enforced due to „technical issues”. https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850

Requirement was always there, just not enforced due to „technical issues”. https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850/HELLDIVERS_2/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.ste... > „Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network” However, making it purchasable from countries not supported by PSN accounts was big error on their part.

Caligatio 2y ago
https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-... Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC? No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts.
- gambiting 2y ago
  Irrelevant - the product page says otherwise and the game itself was explicit in telling you that a PSN account is required on launch.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    How is it irrelevant if it's coming from Sony itself?
    - gambiting 2y ago
      Because the consumer is presented with correct info on the product page by the party actually selling the product - Valve. It's the same when buying a car - the information presented to you at the dealership takes precedence over whatever the manufacturer's website says, because the legal assumption is that you are basing your purchase decision on what is in front of you when buying the car by the party actually selling it.
      - Caligatio 2y ago
        You can literally buy it from Sony and they email you a game key. They're changing all their documentation to match their new announcement: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_trying_to_cover_their_mistakes_in_the_wrong https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_tr...
      - cma 2y ago
        If you offer a nationwide fast food discount in an ad you have to disclaim 'at participating stores only' in order to not make it binding everywhere.
      - shkkmo 2y ago
        > you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. This is an official page where Sony themselves sell the game via providing voucher codes for steam. You can buy the game here without ever visiting the steam page. This clearly qualifies as false advertising.
zamalek 2y ago
Unenforced rules are a murky area. It's not as clear-cut as you suggest. Another issue that has been raised is that Sony is notoriously incompetent with customer data.
- SXX 2y ago
  Sony is one of the most customer-hostile companies in existence. Betting on them not banning you one day for breaking ToS is not an option.
bun_terminator 2y ago
true in legal terms. But it was hidden and the reason given for the change was a blatant lie. They were deceiving users until they could no longer refund. Something like that is often called a scam or fraud
- gambiting 2y ago
  >>But it was hidden When you start the game, you literally get a full screen banner that says a PSN account is required to play and you must sign in. It's just that until now you could click cancel and the game would still launch. How can anyone call it "hidden" is literally beyond me. It's not hidden on page 527 of the EULA or something - it's literally said explicitly on a full screen banner shown to every player who has started the game. Not to mention it's mentioned on the Steam store page.
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    Two things: 1) This dialog only showed one time, the very first time you launched the game 2) This dialog was skippable If you skipped it one single time, it let you play for months now without ever seeing it again. If they wanted to make it clear it was mandatory eventually then the wording and behavior should have made this clear every single time you open the game Allowing to skip means it's not mandatory, regardless of whatever language is written down on the UI, the TOS, on the steam page, or whatever else If this was enforced upfront, people would have had an opportunity to refund immediately. If it was communicated clearly that the Skip was temporary, people could have made an informed choice about playing
    - hiccuphippo 2y ago
      Yes, how is it a technical difficulty to remove a skip button? Players from countries that can't legally acquire a PSN account, or don't want to get one, would have been able to return it ASAP. I guess it was easier to inflate their numbers.
      - bluefirebrand 2y ago
RobotToaster 2y ago
IANAL, but couldn't non enforcement create an implied-in-fact contract?
- leereeves 2y ago
  I'm not a lawyer either, but Wikipedia says that requires "a meeting of minds". It seems pretty clear that Sony always intended to require a PSN account (although that wasn't always communicated well, it was stated on the Steam store page, at the end of news articles, and in the game itself) so there was no meeting of minds. Just confusion.

Caligatio 2y ago

https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-... Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC? No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts.

gambiting 2y ago
Irrelevant - the product page says otherwise and the game itself was explicit in telling you that a PSN account is required on launch.
- twixfel 2y ago
  How is it irrelevant if it's coming from Sony itself?
  - gambiting 2y ago
    Because the consumer is presented with correct info on the product page by the party actually selling the product - Valve. It's the same when buying a car - the information presented to you at the dealership takes precedence over whatever the manufacturer's website says, because the legal assumption is that you are basing your purchase decision on what is in front of you when buying the car by the party actually selling it.
    - Caligatio 2y ago
      You can literally buy it from Sony and they email you a game key. They're changing all their documentation to match their new announcement: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_trying_to_cover_their_mistakes_in_the_wrong https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_tr...
    - cma 2y ago
      If you offer a nationwide fast food discount in an ad you have to disclaim 'at participating stores only' in order to not make it binding everywhere.
    - shkkmo 2y ago
      > you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. This is an official page where Sony themselves sell the game via providing voucher codes for steam. You can buy the game here without ever visiting the steam page. This clearly qualifies as false advertising.

zamalek 2y ago

Unenforced rules are a murky area. It's not as clear-cut as you suggest. Another issue that has been raised is that Sony is notoriously incompetent with customer data.

SXX 2y ago
Sony is one of the most customer-hostile companies in existence. Betting on them not banning you one day for breaking ToS is not an option.

bun_terminator 2y ago

true in legal terms. But it was hidden and the reason given for the change was a blatant lie. They were deceiving users until they could no longer refund. Something like that is often called a scam or fraud

gambiting 2y ago
>>But it was hidden When you start the game, you literally get a full screen banner that says a PSN account is required to play and you must sign in. It's just that until now you could click cancel and the game would still launch. How can anyone call it "hidden" is literally beyond me. It's not hidden on page 527 of the EULA or something - it's literally said explicitly on a full screen banner shown to every player who has started the game. Not to mention it's mentioned on the Steam store page.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  Two things: 1) This dialog only showed one time, the very first time you launched the game 2) This dialog was skippable If you skipped it one single time, it let you play for months now without ever seeing it again. If they wanted to make it clear it was mandatory eventually then the wording and behavior should have made this clear every single time you open the game Allowing to skip means it's not mandatory, regardless of whatever language is written down on the UI, the TOS, on the steam page, or whatever else If this was enforced upfront, people would have had an opportunity to refund immediately. If it was communicated clearly that the Skip was temporary, people could have made an informed choice about playing
  - hiccuphippo 2y ago
    Yes, how is it a technical difficulty to remove a skip button? Players from countries that can't legally acquire a PSN account, or don't want to get one, would have been able to return it ASAP. I guess it was easier to inflate their numbers.
    - bluefirebrand 2y ago

RobotToaster 2y ago

IANAL, but couldn't non enforcement create an implied-in-fact contract?

leereeves 2y ago
I'm not a lawyer either, but Wikipedia says that requires "a meeting of minds". It seems pretty clear that Sony always intended to require a PSN account (although that wasn't always communicated well, it was stated on the Steam store page, at the end of news articles, and in the game itself) so there was no meeting of minds. Just confusion.