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I can be sure it is not used against me. I avoid of course using American services directly, only through their European entities.

rglullis 2y ago
> I can be sure it is not used against me. Oh,the hubris on this one... Can you say with 100% confidence that everyone you know and interact with has as good as a digital hygiene as you? Can you say with 100% confidence that no company is acquiring data about you through shady brokerages? Can you say with 100% confidence that no company had a data leakage (accidental or not) and went on without reporting it?
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  You are asking wrong questions. Of course, there exist data brokers with some information about me. It is not impossible that even a copy of one of my IDs leaked and one of my identities is currently actively exploited by robocallers. What’s important is that within the EU space most of that information is outdated, toxic and not actionable. There’s zero realtime surveillance and I do not receive any relevant product offers beyond reasonably expected behavior of marketplaces.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    Outdated, how? I just gave an example of seeing targeted ads related to a conversation had minutes before. Not actionable, how? GDPR hasn't stopped companies from collecting the data, it just added a bunch of roadblocks which are being overcome via dark patterns that make the majority of people consent to data sharing.
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      > Outdated, how? Based on rare encounters with data processors outside of EU. They sell their products to me based on the knowledge that is at least 10 years old (and they use some old contacts for it). > I just gave an example Irrelevant. I‘m talking only about my experience, because I‘m actively exercising my rights under GDPR and similar privacy laws. > GDPR hasn't stopped companies from collecting the data GDPR made it illegal to collect it without unambiguous consent. If you want privacy, you can get it. As I can see from the inside sources, every big business in EU cares about compliance. Startups usually take a risk-based approach, but they don’t dare to sell the data and mostly compromise on security until they get bigger. Overall, here it is much safer and saner environment, if you don’t consent to marketing stuff. All you need is to read the label on the checkbox when you sign up.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        > All you need is to read the label on the checkbox when you sign up. Your first comment was arguing "tracking doesn't exist in the EU, because we have regulations for it". Now this here is a much weaker version of the argument, because it means "data tracking can be avoided if you are always vigilant and practice good Internet hygiene". You might believe that you are protected, but what I am saying is that even those aware of tracking might end up getting a lot of their data collected via those that are not.
        ivan_gammel 2y ago
        >Your first comment was arguing "tracking doesn't exist in the EU, because we have regulations for it" It was not. It is false generalization of my words. >those aware of tracking might end up getting a lot of their data collected via those that are not We all leave pretty big footprint both online and offline, very often through a consented and legitimate process. It is a simple matter of data hygiene to make most of that footprint just useless pile of bits if you control the narrative and spread of information is constrained. Who cares if one of my phone numbers landed in a public database because I registered a company many years ago? I wrote a lot on this forum — do you think you can build a precise portrait of me with this, that or some other data? Do you really believe one can use it against me in a way I would not expect? A while ago I was working on a data mining project for some Western government, an information warfare they used to shape public opinion globally. I know quite well what data can be extracted, especially with modern technology. Without privacy laws there exists asymmetry between data industry and individuals, but the balance is shifting to the point, where you can actually manage what others know about you.

rglullis 2y ago

> I can be sure it is not used against me. Oh,the hubris on this one... Can you say with 100% confidence that everyone you know and interact with has as good as a digital hygiene as you? Can you say with 100% confidence that no company is acquiring data about you through shady brokerages? Can you say with 100% confidence that no company had a data leakage (accidental or not) and went on without reporting it?

ivan_gammel 2y ago
You are asking wrong questions. Of course, there exist data brokers with some information about me. It is not impossible that even a copy of one of my IDs leaked and one of my identities is currently actively exploited by robocallers. What’s important is that within the EU space most of that information is outdated, toxic and not actionable. There’s zero realtime surveillance and I do not receive any relevant product offers beyond reasonably expected behavior of marketplaces.
- rglullis 2y ago
  Outdated, how? I just gave an example of seeing targeted ads related to a conversation had minutes before. Not actionable, how? GDPR hasn't stopped companies from collecting the data, it just added a bunch of roadblocks which are being overcome via dark patterns that make the majority of people consent to data sharing.
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    > Outdated, how? Based on rare encounters with data processors outside of EU. They sell their products to me based on the knowledge that is at least 10 years old (and they use some old contacts for it). > I just gave an example Irrelevant. I‘m talking only about my experience, because I‘m actively exercising my rights under GDPR and similar privacy laws. > GDPR hasn't stopped companies from collecting the data GDPR made it illegal to collect it without unambiguous consent. If you want privacy, you can get it. As I can see from the inside sources, every big business in EU cares about compliance. Startups usually take a risk-based approach, but they don’t dare to sell the data and mostly compromise on security until they get bigger. Overall, here it is much safer and saner environment, if you don’t consent to marketing stuff. All you need is to read the label on the checkbox when you sign up.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      > All you need is to read the label on the checkbox when you sign up. Your first comment was arguing "tracking doesn't exist in the EU, because we have regulations for it". Now this here is a much weaker version of the argument, because it means "data tracking can be avoided if you are always vigilant and practice good Internet hygiene". You might believe that you are protected, but what I am saying is that even those aware of tracking might end up getting a lot of their data collected via those that are not.
      - ivan_gammel 2y ago
        >Your first comment was arguing "tracking doesn't exist in the EU, because we have regulations for it" It was not. It is false generalization of my words. >those aware of tracking might end up getting a lot of their data collected via those that are not We all leave pretty big footprint both online and offline, very often through a consented and legitimate process. It is a simple matter of data hygiene to make most of that footprint just useless pile of bits if you control the narrative and spread of information is constrained. Who cares if one of my phone numbers landed in a public database because I registered a company many years ago? I wrote a lot on this forum — do you think you can build a precise portrait of me with this, that or some other data? Do you really believe one can use it against me in a way I would not expect? A while ago I was working on a data mining project for some Western government, an information warfare they used to shape public opinion globally. I know quite well what data can be extracted, especially with modern technology. Without privacy laws there exists asymmetry between data industry and individuals, but the balance is shifting to the point, where you can actually manage what others know about you.