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I feel like the wind-turbine industry is ripe with possible innovation opportunities. It has now grown to the scale where serious r&d can expect meaningful retu

I feel like the wind-turbine industry is ripe with possible innovation opportunities. It has now grown to the scale where serious r&d can expect meaningful returns. Especially in the area of residential-scale turbines. We've seen, with the roll-out of rooftop solar that people with good solar conditions are prepared to generate supplemental electricity. There's an untapped market for those in poor solar, but good wind, areas, or with a desire for both. I'm not saying it's a silver bullet, but so far the economics of wind at residential level are behind solar.

lll-o-lll 3y ago
Yeah, nah. Engineering says no, unfortunately. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRREJZdRA8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRREJZdRA8g
occz 3y ago
I thought residential wind was basically a non-starter due to wind availability at low heights + power scaling exponentially with blade length?
- swores 3y ago
  Might there be a size at which it would make sense for multiple houses to group together and pay for a turbine that's big enough to supply all their electricity, rather than one per house like solar panels? (If enough of the local residents feel YIMBY about it, that is.)
  - jl6 3y ago
    There is certainly a market for smaller turbines in remote locations where it’s harder to maintain grid access, or any other scenario where pure $/W is not the only factor.
    - natmaka 3y ago
      In locations where wind regimes correlation to nearby other ones are among the lowest.
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  Plus, I'm not bothered by a poorly maintained, stationary solar panel on my neighbour's house, but I very much mind a poorly maintained, rotating turbine in the same place!
  - bruce511 3y ago
    Both excellent points. Yes, economically, at the moment, it's hard to justify. But some solar system inverters support wind inputs, which means the "overhead" costs (inverter, battery, etc) drop away. Yes, in terms of kw/$ adding more solar makes more sense. Except that solar is obviously dependent on sun. Mixing inputs means more "spread" in generation. (Obviously night time, rainy days, and so on.) So its not just about kw/$ but also smoothing generation to reduce overall storage (which is -very- expensive.) They do need more maintainence. And they contain more kinetic energy, so failure could be more serious. These are all excellent, well accepted, points. And just when things are absolutly-positivly a bad idea... well, that's why it's ripe for disruption.
    - tomek_ycomb 3y ago
      Just to reiterate what other people have said, no! There are extremely few cases residential wind makes sense. Maybe in some cases where geometry of buildings allows for an effective wind sweep much greater. But otherwise, winds aren't windy enough at building level.
    - kbenson 3y ago
      I was looking and home wind options last weekend, and came across Harmony Wind Turbines, which look interesting given as a vertical solution they take less room, their models apparently can gather wind at lower wind speeds, and they have a feature to allow they to function at higher wind speeds, increasing the total operational speeds. Unfortunately, all the interesting details are pending testing which they've partnered with universities for, but I'm not sure how far along they are. Its unfortunately very hard to yell whether it's actually interesting or just appears to be so because key details aren't known, but hopefully we'll know one way or another within a year or two. The other energy source that's drawn my interest recently is microhydro solutions, but that necessarily requires specific geographic features (a water source and elevation).
- devilbunny 3y ago
  Depends on the situation; for most people, it's a non-starter, but remote cabins in the right place may make for a good residential wind source. There are fishing camps in northern Canada that are only used for a couple of months a year, but they have winter caretakers. The one I know isn't above the treeline, but the trees are all pretty short (30-40 feet max, 10-12 meters, usually less), so getting above the trees isn't hard. Given that solar is going to be pitiful even if there's no snow, wind would be my first choice to keep a handful of things charged. Satellite phone, e-Ink reader, indoor lighting. His heat is all firewood chopped during the first couple of months after arrival, before it gets really cold.
olau 3y ago
Where did you get that feeling from? Wind turbine manufacturers are engineering heavy organizations. The competition is fierce. Only those manufacturers with the best R&D have survived. From time to time you see radically new designs that never get anywhere because they are just so much worse than the 3-blade design that won out. The main development area right now is probably floating foundations for off-shore turbines. Residential-scale wind turbines are difficult - they need good height, require maintenance, are noisy. They are a niche product. Yet, there are several manufacturers, and again competition is fierce.
constantcrying 3y ago
Solar scales linearly with size of installation. Is this remotely true for wind energy? What is the potential ROI for a wind installation in a resident area? To be honest, I suspect it is extremely low.

lll-o-lll 3y ago

Yeah, nah. Engineering says no, unfortunately. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRREJZdRA8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRREJZdRA8g

occz 3y ago

I thought residential wind was basically a non-starter due to wind availability at low heights + power scaling exponentially with blade length?

swores 3y ago
Might there be a size at which it would make sense for multiple houses to group together and pay for a turbine that's big enough to supply all their electricity, rather than one per house like solar panels? (If enough of the local residents feel YIMBY about it, that is.)
- jl6 3y ago
  There is certainly a market for smaller turbines in remote locations where it’s harder to maintain grid access, or any other scenario where pure $/W is not the only factor.
  - natmaka 3y ago
    In locations where wind regimes correlation to nearby other ones are among the lowest.
rich_sasha 3y ago
Plus, I'm not bothered by a poorly maintained, stationary solar panel on my neighbour's house, but I very much mind a poorly maintained, rotating turbine in the same place!
- bruce511 3y ago
  Both excellent points. Yes, economically, at the moment, it's hard to justify. But some solar system inverters support wind inputs, which means the "overhead" costs (inverter, battery, etc) drop away. Yes, in terms of kw/$ adding more solar makes more sense. Except that solar is obviously dependent on sun. Mixing inputs means more "spread" in generation. (Obviously night time, rainy days, and so on.) So its not just about kw/$ but also smoothing generation to reduce overall storage (which is -very- expensive.) They do need more maintainence. And they contain more kinetic energy, so failure could be more serious. These are all excellent, well accepted, points. And just when things are absolutly-positivly a bad idea... well, that's why it's ripe for disruption.
  - tomek_ycomb 3y ago
    Just to reiterate what other people have said, no! There are extremely few cases residential wind makes sense. Maybe in some cases where geometry of buildings allows for an effective wind sweep much greater. But otherwise, winds aren't windy enough at building level.
  - kbenson 3y ago
    I was looking and home wind options last weekend, and came across Harmony Wind Turbines, which look interesting given as a vertical solution they take less room, their models apparently can gather wind at lower wind speeds, and they have a feature to allow they to function at higher wind speeds, increasing the total operational speeds. Unfortunately, all the interesting details are pending testing which they've partnered with universities for, but I'm not sure how far along they are. Its unfortunately very hard to yell whether it's actually interesting or just appears to be so because key details aren't known, but hopefully we'll know one way or another within a year or two. The other energy source that's drawn my interest recently is microhydro solutions, but that necessarily requires specific geographic features (a water source and elevation).
devilbunny 3y ago
Depends on the situation; for most people, it's a non-starter, but remote cabins in the right place may make for a good residential wind source. There are fishing camps in northern Canada that are only used for a couple of months a year, but they have winter caretakers. The one I know isn't above the treeline, but the trees are all pretty short (30-40 feet max, 10-12 meters, usually less), so getting above the trees isn't hard. Given that solar is going to be pitiful even if there's no snow, wind would be my first choice to keep a handful of things charged. Satellite phone, e-Ink reader, indoor lighting. His heat is all firewood chopped during the first couple of months after arrival, before it gets really cold.

olau 3y ago

Where did you get that feeling from? Wind turbine manufacturers are engineering heavy organizations. The competition is fierce. Only those manufacturers with the best R&D have survived. From time to time you see radically new designs that never get anywhere because they are just so much worse than the 3-blade design that won out. The main development area right now is probably floating foundations for off-shore turbines. Residential-scale wind turbines are difficult - they need good height, require maintenance, are noisy. They are a niche product. Yet, there are several manufacturers, and again competition is fierce.

constantcrying 3y ago

Solar scales linearly with size of installation. Is this remotely true for wind energy? What is the potential ROI for a wind installation in a resident area? To be honest, I suspect it is extremely low.