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I love how any criticism of capitalism automatically invites the “but things sucked more at a particular place in a particular period” argument. I grew up in a

I love how any criticism of capitalism automatically invites the “but things sucked more at a particular place in a particular period” argument. I grew up in a capitalist country. Being poor doesn’t give you access to things just the same.

otherme123 2y ago
Being poor is the natural state of humans. We have been poor for thousands of years, with regular famines eveywhere. Even in the richer parts of the world, there where deaths due to starvation if the year was bad. Then it came capitalism. For the first time in history, a country eliminated famines just by adopting the new of organizing production. They were still poor people who lacked things, but they lived in the only part of the world where at least they could count on not starving to death. Then some countries organized as socialism, and they caused huge famines, that in a rare historical event, were not caused by climate or a natural catastrophe, but by wrong resource allocation. You can criticize capitalism, but not on terms of producing what people want. In that field we don't know any other system that does it better. Capitalism is bad at distributing the wealth equally to everyone, causing that some people cannot have some things, but also we don't know a better model that does it while keeping poverty away. If people today doesn't have unbreakable glassware (it exists!) is just because they prefer cheaper and fancier glasses from Ikea. When I need a truly unbreakable "glass" I buy a titanium made camping glass. In general we don't want all products to last a long time: we want to change our car to get the newest fancy things, we want a bigger and faster phone. We don't want a single pair of shoes that last forever, but lots of shoes to match with lots of clothes. There are long lasting shoes, but they don't sell well (i.e. people don't want them, even if they say so).
- ahf8Aithaex7Nai 2y ago
  Believing in undercomplex narratives that describe the state of the world in a pleasant way is the natural state of humans.
pxmpxm 2y ago
Being poor in a capitalist country still puts you in the very top of the ladder in any communist place. Everyone was poor there, and way poorer than you, myself included.
pxmpxm 2y ago
Just to add some numbers for context, in 1980 the US poverty line family income was ~ $8k year. In the USSR the MEDIAN family income was ~1200 rubles a year, which is around $400/year using the real exchange change. People in the west have no grasp at the level of abject poverty that communism creates.
- hcarvalhoalves 2y ago
  So to prove your point, you picked the richest country in the west to compare with the USSR, but generalized to “people in the west don’t know what poverty is”. The “west” is more than the US you know, unless you’re not talking about this side of the meridian.
  - pxmpxm 2y ago
    Pick your favourite country in "the west" and you will end up with the same conclusion, since you're like 2 orders of magnitude off.

otherme123 2y ago

Being poor is the natural state of humans. We have been poor for thousands of years, with regular famines eveywhere. Even in the richer parts of the world, there where deaths due to starvation if the year was bad. Then it came capitalism. For the first time in history, a country eliminated famines just by adopting the new of organizing production. They were still poor people who lacked things, but they lived in the only part of the world where at least they could count on not starving to death. Then some countries organized as socialism, and they caused huge famines, that in a rare historical event, were not caused by climate or a natural catastrophe, but by wrong resource allocation. You can criticize capitalism, but not on terms of producing what people want. In that field we don't know any other system that does it better. Capitalism is bad at distributing the wealth equally to everyone, causing that some people cannot have some things, but also we don't know a better model that does it while keeping poverty away. If people today doesn't have unbreakable glassware (it exists!) is just because they prefer cheaper and fancier glasses from Ikea. When I need a truly unbreakable "glass" I buy a titanium made camping glass. In general we don't want all products to last a long time: we want to change our car to get the newest fancy things, we want a bigger and faster phone. We don't want a single pair of shoes that last forever, but lots of shoes to match with lots of clothes. There are long lasting shoes, but they don't sell well (i.e. people don't want them, even if they say so).

ahf8Aithaex7Nai 2y ago
Believing in undercomplex narratives that describe the state of the world in a pleasant way is the natural state of humans.

pxmpxm 2y ago

Being poor in a capitalist country still puts you in the very top of the ladder in any communist place. Everyone was poor there, and way poorer than you, myself included.

pxmpxm 2y ago

Just to add some numbers for context, in 1980 the US poverty line family income was ~ $8k year. In the USSR the MEDIAN family income was ~1200 rubles a year, which is around $400/year using the real exchange change. People in the west have no grasp at the level of abject poverty that communism creates.

hcarvalhoalves 2y ago
So to prove your point, you picked the richest country in the west to compare with the USSR, but generalized to “people in the west don’t know what poverty is”. The “west” is more than the US you know, unless you’re not talking about this side of the meridian.
- pxmpxm 2y ago
  Pick your favourite country in "the west" and you will end up with the same conclusion, since you're like 2 orders of magnitude off.