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Interesting that the 1981 Mac design was for a cheaper computer with GUI graphics like the Lisa. Originally it was to be a 6809 based system like the TRS80 COCO

Interesting that the 1981 Mac design was for a cheaper computer with GUI graphics like the Lisa. Originally it was to be a 6809 based system like the TRS80 COCO. Jobs did a high tech makeover of the Mac to borrow tech from the Lisa.

kalleboo 2y ago
After Jef Raskin got kicked off the Mac, his concepts of a easy-to-use, non-mouse-based computer eventually turned into the Canon Cat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat
- garyrob 2y ago
  IIRC Raskin kept on trying to take some sort of partial credit for the Mac over the years, but the actual Mac that was made had pretty much nothing to do with his initial concept.
  - WillAdams 2y ago
    See: https://www.folklore.org/I_Invented_Burrell.html https://www.folklore.org/I_Invented_Burrell.html Though, to be fair, he did name it: https://www.folklore.org/Bicycle.html https://www.folklore.org/Bicycle.html and for an actual answer see: https://www.folklore.org/The_Father_of_The_Macintosh.html https://www.folklore.org/The_Father_of_The_Macintosh.html
watersb 2y ago
Jef Raskin's initial idea, I believe, was more of a text system that would have been possible with the 6809. The Canon Cat was a further development of this idea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat I can't find any demo or screen shots of the Canon Cat system in use, but I imagine it to be somewhat along the lines of the HASCI concept, which had been brewing around the same time. https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-11/page/n404/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-11/page/n404/... HASCI actually shipped on the USA version of the Epson QX-10 as "Valdocs", an integrated document management system.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  > I can't find any demo or screen shots of the Canon Cat system in use There's an advertising video on YouTube showing it in use for text editing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_TlE_U_X3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_TlE_U_X3c
  - watersb 2y ago
    Wow, of course.. didn't think of video. That video is great, a VCR tape collection of corporate demos by Jef Raskin's company, apparently for investors and resellers. YouTube suggested a short, informal demo posted only 10 years ago, about 6 minutes: https://youtu.be/jErqdRE5zpQ?si=A1kK2FhR9-LhoZIU https://youtu.be/jErqdRE5zpQ?si=A1kK2FhR9-LhoZIU A bit less familiar with it so a quick and dirty video I suppose but a great demonstration of what it would be like to use one now. Essential history! Thanks!
- RodgerTheGreat 2y ago
  You can try out the Cat in emulation from the comfort of your browser: https://archive.org/details/canoncat https://archive.org/details/canoncat
  - watersb 2y ago
    Phenomenal. Excellent catch! If only I could convince mobile browsers to enable the onscreen keyboard in web-based emulators... For instance, Infinite Macintosh has an explicit "Keyboard" that I should trivially peek at. It has a different problem mapping the iOS keyboard to ancient computers. Hmm. Has anyone figured out a way to work around this?
duskwuff 2y ago
> Interesting that the 1981 Mac design was for a cheaper computer with GUI graphics like the Lisa. The 1981 design also had significantly lower resolution graphics (384x256) than Macintosh released with (512x342). Any idea when this was changed?
- Someone 2y ago
  Early 1982. https://folklore.org/Five_Different_Macs.html https://folklore.org/Five_Different_Macs.html: “In the beginning of 1982, the original 68000 design was more than a year old, and the software was nowhere near finished, so Burrell was afraid some of the trade-offs of the original design were no longer current. He used the expansive canvas of a custom chip, where additional logic was almost free, to update the architecture. The most important decision was admitting that the software would never fit into 64K of memory and going with a full 16-bit memory bus, requiring 16 RAM chips instead of 8. The extra memory bandwidth allowed him to double the display resolution, going to dimensions of 512 by 342 instead of 384 by 256. He also added bells and whistles like a fancy, DMA-fed sound generator with four independent voices. This was the fourth version of the Macintosh design.”
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    I wish they had used the same 12" screen used on the Lisa, but in a vertical position (and with some extra pixels from a slightly faster memory system - or a slightly slower frame rate and longer persistence).

kalleboo 2y ago

After Jef Raskin got kicked off the Mac, his concepts of a easy-to-use, non-mouse-based computer eventually turned into the Canon Cat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat

garyrob 2y ago
IIRC Raskin kept on trying to take some sort of partial credit for the Mac over the years, but the actual Mac that was made had pretty much nothing to do with his initial concept.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  See: https://www.folklore.org/I_Invented_Burrell.html https://www.folklore.org/I_Invented_Burrell.html Though, to be fair, he did name it: https://www.folklore.org/Bicycle.html https://www.folklore.org/Bicycle.html and for an actual answer see: https://www.folklore.org/The_Father_of_The_Macintosh.html https://www.folklore.org/The_Father_of_The_Macintosh.html

watersb 2y ago

Jef Raskin's initial idea, I believe, was more of a text system that would have been possible with the 6809. The Canon Cat was a further development of this idea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Cat I can't find any demo or screen shots of the Canon Cat system in use, but I imagine it to be somewhat along the lines of the HASCI concept, which had been brewing around the same time. https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-11/page/n404/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-11/page/n404/... HASCI actually shipped on the USA version of the Epson QX-10 as "Valdocs", an integrated document management system.

kalleboo 2y ago
> I can't find any demo or screen shots of the Canon Cat system in use There's an advertising video on YouTube showing it in use for text editing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_TlE_U_X3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_TlE_U_X3c
- watersb 2y ago
  Wow, of course.. didn't think of video. That video is great, a VCR tape collection of corporate demos by Jef Raskin's company, apparently for investors and resellers. YouTube suggested a short, informal demo posted only 10 years ago, about 6 minutes: https://youtu.be/jErqdRE5zpQ?si=A1kK2FhR9-LhoZIU https://youtu.be/jErqdRE5zpQ?si=A1kK2FhR9-LhoZIU A bit less familiar with it so a quick and dirty video I suppose but a great demonstration of what it would be like to use one now. Essential history! Thanks!
RodgerTheGreat 2y ago
You can try out the Cat in emulation from the comfort of your browser: https://archive.org/details/canoncat https://archive.org/details/canoncat
- watersb 2y ago
  Phenomenal. Excellent catch! If only I could convince mobile browsers to enable the onscreen keyboard in web-based emulators... For instance, Infinite Macintosh has an explicit "Keyboard" that I should trivially peek at. It has a different problem mapping the iOS keyboard to ancient computers. Hmm. Has anyone figured out a way to work around this?

duskwuff 2y ago

> Interesting that the 1981 Mac design was for a cheaper computer with GUI graphics like the Lisa. The 1981 design also had significantly lower resolution graphics (384x256) than Macintosh released with (512x342). Any idea when this was changed?

Someone 2y ago
Early 1982. https://folklore.org/Five_Different_Macs.html https://folklore.org/Five_Different_Macs.html: “In the beginning of 1982, the original 68000 design was more than a year old, and the software was nowhere near finished, so Burrell was afraid some of the trade-offs of the original design were no longer current. He used the expansive canvas of a custom chip, where additional logic was almost free, to update the architecture. The most important decision was admitting that the software would never fit into 64K of memory and going with a full 16-bit memory bus, requiring 16 RAM chips instead of 8. The extra memory bandwidth allowed him to double the display resolution, going to dimensions of 512 by 342 instead of 384 by 256. He also added bells and whistles like a fancy, DMA-fed sound generator with four independent voices. This was the fourth version of the Macintosh design.”
- rbanffy 2y ago
  I wish they had used the same 12" screen used on the Lisa, but in a vertical position (and with some extra pixels from a slightly faster memory system - or a slightly slower frame rate and longer persistence).