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Are you saying that only physical persons can own a property and that only the owner can live in it? Good luck with that idea. And it does sound like communism

Are you saying that only physical persons can own a property and that only the owner can live in it? Good luck with that idea. And it does sound like communism when you unwind it. I still believe that an oversupply of houses would crash prices. Make too many affordable houses so that they don't work as investments and really stay affordable. Spoiler alert: People who work and still live in a car need a house. But Homelessness is a mental health issue for the most part, so it isn't going away. Edit: your next post is about the same idea.

kerkeslager 2y ago
> Are you saying that only physical persons can own a property and that only the owner can live in it? Good luck with that idea. And it does sound like communism when you unwind it. If we're worrying about how things sound, the total callousness with which Hacker News treats the homeless sounds like sociopathy. I'm less interested in categorizing actions into your pointless capitalist/communist divide, and more interested in solving homelessness. > I still believe that an oversupply of houses would crash prices. Make too many affordable houses so that they don't work as investments and really stay affordable. Good. Crash prices. Houses are for living in, not for investing in. > But Homelessness is a mental health issue for the most part, so it isn't going away. Homelessness is more of a cause of mental health issues than a result of mental health issues. No mental health treatment can be effective for a patient experience the ongoing trauma of homelessness. The solution to homelessness is homes. In countries that care about their people instead of housing profits, they provide homes for the homeless. As it turns out, effectively no one is so mentally ill that they choose to be homeless in those countries. "Homelessness is a mental health issue" is complete bullshit used to justify not helping in ways that hurt some people's profits. Homelessness isn't a mental health issue, it's a lack of homes issue.
- em-bee 2y ago
  In countries that care about their people instead of housing profits, they provide homes for the homeless. As it turns out, effectively no one is so mentally ill that they choose to be homeless in those countries. if that were true everywhere then those countries that do provide homes for everyone would have noone staying homeless at all. but yet they do. some countries are doing better than others. finland among them i think. germany may actually have a lack of housing problem in larger cities, but even there you'll at least have access to a shelter, but i am certain that vienna doesn't lack housing at the rate they are building with 2/3rds of all housing being subsidized. there is a difference to countries that do not provide adequate support for homeless people like the USA where thousands live in tents, and countries that do provide support, and countries where the chronically homeless are those few who do not have mental health necessary to apply for the necessary help to get a new home. homelessness is a lack of homes issue until that issue is being addressed. homelessness that remains after that is a mental health problem. of course once you are in that situation, the initial mental health issue that prevented you from seeking help right away is just a small part. the experience reinforces the mental health issues so that in the end you can't tell the difference anymore.
  - kerkeslager 2y ago
    > there is a difference to countries that do not provide adequate support for homeless people like the USA where thousands live in tents, and countries that do provide support, and countries where the chronically homeless are those few who do not have mental health necessary to apply for the necessary help to get a new home. The idea of applying for help to get a home is, frankly, idiotic; an invention of people who are trying to not help the homeless. If someone is sleeping on the ground that's their application. That's how Finland's housing-first programs work and that's a big part of why their homelessness is falling. I'm going to reiterate: homelessness is not a mental health issue, it's a lack of housing issue. You don't get to blame mentally ill homeless people for being too mentally ill to fill out an application and pretend that's some impossibly hard problem. That's not their fault, that's the fault of people who refuse to help people without forcing them to do paperwork.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      The idea of applying for help to get a home is, frankly, idiotic; you are reading much more into that statement than it was meant to express. regardless of what the process is, you still have to talk to a human and ask. that is all that "apply for help" was meant to say. maybe i should have said "ask for help". does that make it more clear? if someone is unable to ask for help, then that is absolutely a mental health issue. but also some people just do not want to stay in those places. that may be considered a housing issue in that the wrong kind of housing is offered (shelter instead of home) if that is your point then, well, i concede that, because i do not know what kind of housing is being offered. my point is that those who don't have mental health issues also should be able to get the help they need in order to get a new home. if i were kicked out of my home with no money and no friends, i'd walk straight to the next government office and ask for help. i may get the run around until i find the right help but i'd be stubborn until i have at least a temporary place. and then continue until i have a home and the necessary financial support. bureaucracy makes this a rough and undignified process. but anyone failing in that process so that they end up on the street is undoubtedly having their mental health affected. in places where help is not given, this is neither a mental health nor a housing problem but a problem of broken bureaucracy and lack of compassion. because under housing problem i understand that help can't be given because there is simply not enough space to find homes for all the people who need one. that may be the case in some places, but it certainly isn't in vienna. this is why i rejected the idea that it is a housing problem. it may still be a housing problem in that the wrong housing is offered, but if it isn't a mental health problem with the individuals involved then it is a problem with the wrong help being given, help that is not considering the needs of the individuals.

kerkeslager 2y ago

> Are you saying that only physical persons can own a property and that only the owner can live in it? Good luck with that idea. And it does sound like communism when you unwind it. If we're worrying about how things sound, the total callousness with which Hacker News treats the homeless sounds like sociopathy. I'm less interested in categorizing actions into your pointless capitalist/communist divide, and more interested in solving homelessness. > I still believe that an oversupply of houses would crash prices. Make too many affordable houses so that they don't work as investments and really stay affordable. Good. Crash prices. Houses are for living in, not for investing in. > But Homelessness is a mental health issue for the most part, so it isn't going away. Homelessness is more of a cause of mental health issues than a result of mental health issues. No mental health treatment can be effective for a patient experience the ongoing trauma of homelessness. The solution to homelessness is homes. In countries that care about their people instead of housing profits, they provide homes for the homeless. As it turns out, effectively no one is so mentally ill that they choose to be homeless in those countries. "Homelessness is a mental health issue" is complete bullshit used to justify not helping in ways that hurt some people's profits. Homelessness isn't a mental health issue, it's a lack of homes issue.

em-bee 2y ago
In countries that care about their people instead of housing profits, they provide homes for the homeless. As it turns out, effectively no one is so mentally ill that they choose to be homeless in those countries. if that were true everywhere then those countries that do provide homes for everyone would have noone staying homeless at all. but yet they do. some countries are doing better than others. finland among them i think. germany may actually have a lack of housing problem in larger cities, but even there you'll at least have access to a shelter, but i am certain that vienna doesn't lack housing at the rate they are building with 2/3rds of all housing being subsidized. there is a difference to countries that do not provide adequate support for homeless people like the USA where thousands live in tents, and countries that do provide support, and countries where the chronically homeless are those few who do not have mental health necessary to apply for the necessary help to get a new home. homelessness is a lack of homes issue until that issue is being addressed. homelessness that remains after that is a mental health problem. of course once you are in that situation, the initial mental health issue that prevented you from seeking help right away is just a small part. the experience reinforces the mental health issues so that in the end you can't tell the difference anymore.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  > there is a difference to countries that do not provide adequate support for homeless people like the USA where thousands live in tents, and countries that do provide support, and countries where the chronically homeless are those few who do not have mental health necessary to apply for the necessary help to get a new home. The idea of applying for help to get a home is, frankly, idiotic; an invention of people who are trying to not help the homeless. If someone is sleeping on the ground that's their application. That's how Finland's housing-first programs work and that's a big part of why their homelessness is falling. I'm going to reiterate: homelessness is not a mental health issue, it's a lack of housing issue. You don't get to blame mentally ill homeless people for being too mentally ill to fill out an application and pretend that's some impossibly hard problem. That's not their fault, that's the fault of people who refuse to help people without forcing them to do paperwork.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    The idea of applying for help to get a home is, frankly, idiotic; you are reading much more into that statement than it was meant to express. regardless of what the process is, you still have to talk to a human and ask. that is all that "apply for help" was meant to say. maybe i should have said "ask for help". does that make it more clear? if someone is unable to ask for help, then that is absolutely a mental health issue. but also some people just do not want to stay in those places. that may be considered a housing issue in that the wrong kind of housing is offered (shelter instead of home) if that is your point then, well, i concede that, because i do not know what kind of housing is being offered. my point is that those who don't have mental health issues also should be able to get the help they need in order to get a new home. if i were kicked out of my home with no money and no friends, i'd walk straight to the next government office and ask for help. i may get the run around until i find the right help but i'd be stubborn until i have at least a temporary place. and then continue until i have a home and the necessary financial support. bureaucracy makes this a rough and undignified process. but anyone failing in that process so that they end up on the street is undoubtedly having their mental health affected. in places where help is not given, this is neither a mental health nor a housing problem but a problem of broken bureaucracy and lack of compassion. because under housing problem i understand that help can't be given because there is simply not enough space to find homes for all the people who need one. that may be the case in some places, but it certainly isn't in vienna. this is why i rejected the idea that it is a housing problem. it may still be a housing problem in that the wrong housing is offered, but if it isn't a mental health problem with the individuals involved then it is a problem with the wrong help being given, help that is not considering the needs of the individuals.