4 ms·

Why is the US military procuring Cisco equipment from any retailer other than Cisco itself? Even if the devices weren’t counterfeit, the seller could install im

Why is the US military procuring Cisco equipment from any retailer other than Cisco itself? Even if the devices weren’t counterfeit, the seller could install implants in them.

p_l 3y ago
Public procurement processes put in to enable competition and prevent corruption (ostensibly) enable situations where you make public bids for network infrastructure and get whatever the lowest price bidder grabbed.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Doesn't the lower bidder still have to provide proof of a chain of custody for sensitive equipment? Just one procurement officer with the slightest doubt, and calling up someone at Cisco HQ to double check a serial number, would have discovered this scam almost instantly.
  - pigbearpig 3y ago
    That procurement officer could be less than a year removed from high school and in charge of ordering anything from ballpoint pens to medical devices and weapons. They aren't experts in what they are purchasing all the time. I doubt there are specific details on how these got ordered, but there are scenarios that could lead to little questioning.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Scenarios that lead to little questioning, sure, but none that lead to zero questioning. Unless they are already part of a well established contractor. And even then at least a few dozen sets of eyeballs are going over the paperwork from my understanding.
playingalong 3y ago
Why? Probably the other seller offered a lower price.
- wmf 3y ago
  If a Cisco reseller offers a lower price than Cisco for Cisco equipment that's pretty dumb. I realize it can happen because prices are negotiated but such situations introduce risk into the supply chain as seen here.
Jtsummers 3y ago
A lot of times equipment like that is supplied as part of a system, the DOD buys the system, not the individual components.
pigbearpig 3y ago
There are many variables to procurement and all have various levels of scrutiny. I'm not an expert, but here are a few routes to paint a picture. If it's a part of an "official" system/package from a big defense contractor there's little chance it's counterfeit. There's quite of bit of scrutiny there, unless the contractor providing that system is buying these off Amazon which seems the lest likely scenario. But maybe a small company setup with the sole purpose of winning the bid for an F-15 simulator bids so low that they do buy this stuff, it's possible. As others mentioned, there are layers of rules about justification if you don't go for the lowest price, preference for small business, and getting bids. Finally, if you just need something, the person ordering the item isn't the person buying the item. The IT professional orders a Cisco router, provides some possible places to source it and turns that into contracting/procurement. The procurement team will then actually go buy it and often they will go try to find the cheapest option and they're not experts so they'll often buy the wrong damn thing entirely. Want a 500ft roll of yellow shielded Cat6? Here's 1000ft of blue UTP Cat3 because "it was cheaper".
- delfinom 3y ago
  Lol being in the industry, it gets better than that. Sometimes IT isn't even consulted. The engineers with no IT background will just buy equipment and shove it in without a second thought. Lord knows where they get the equipment at that point. I had a network guy I know at another defense contractor once tell me he just came back from a IT freakout because engineering was just finishing a classified project and they literally never told IT about all the internal networking it contains. Apparently the IT guys themselves spent a weekend even installing steel plates over the network panels to the networking in a hurry to cover their bases. Lol
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
    Yup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_IT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_IT
yed 3y ago
Cisco doesn’t really sell this stuff directly, you have to buy through resellers.

Why is the US military procuring Cisco equipment from any retailer other than Cisco itself? Even if the devices weren’t counterfeit, the seller could install implants in them.

p_l 3y ago

Public procurement processes put in to enable competition and prevent corruption (ostensibly) enable situations where you make public bids for network infrastructure and get whatever the lowest price bidder grabbed.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
Doesn't the lower bidder still have to provide proof of a chain of custody for sensitive equipment? Just one procurement officer with the slightest doubt, and calling up someone at Cisco HQ to double check a serial number, would have discovered this scam almost instantly.
- pigbearpig 3y ago
  That procurement officer could be less than a year removed from high school and in charge of ordering anything from ballpoint pens to medical devices and weapons. They aren't experts in what they are purchasing all the time. I doubt there are specific details on how these got ordered, but there are scenarios that could lead to little questioning.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Scenarios that lead to little questioning, sure, but none that lead to zero questioning. Unless they are already part of a well established contractor. And even then at least a few dozen sets of eyeballs are going over the paperwork from my understanding.

playingalong 3y ago

Why? Probably the other seller offered a lower price.

wmf 3y ago
If a Cisco reseller offers a lower price than Cisco for Cisco equipment that's pretty dumb. I realize it can happen because prices are negotiated but such situations introduce risk into the supply chain as seen here.

Jtsummers 3y ago

A lot of times equipment like that is supplied as part of a system, the DOD buys the system, not the individual components.

pigbearpig 3y ago

There are many variables to procurement and all have various levels of scrutiny. I'm not an expert, but here are a few routes to paint a picture. If it's a part of an "official" system/package from a big defense contractor there's little chance it's counterfeit. There's quite of bit of scrutiny there, unless the contractor providing that system is buying these off Amazon which seems the lest likely scenario. But maybe a small company setup with the sole purpose of winning the bid for an F-15 simulator bids so low that they do buy this stuff, it's possible. As others mentioned, there are layers of rules about justification if you don't go for the lowest price, preference for small business, and getting bids. Finally, if you just need something, the person ordering the item isn't the person buying the item. The IT professional orders a Cisco router, provides some possible places to source it and turns that into contracting/procurement. The procurement team will then actually go buy it and often they will go try to find the cheapest option and they're not experts so they'll often buy the wrong damn thing entirely. Want a 500ft roll of yellow shielded Cat6? Here's 1000ft of blue UTP Cat3 because "it was cheaper".

delfinom 3y ago
Lol being in the industry, it gets better than that. Sometimes IT isn't even consulted. The engineers with no IT background will just buy equipment and shove it in without a second thought. Lord knows where they get the equipment at that point. I had a network guy I know at another defense contractor once tell me he just came back from a IT freakout because engineering was just finishing a classified project and they literally never told IT about all the internal networking it contains. Apparently the IT guys themselves spent a weekend even installing steel plates over the network panels to the networking in a hurry to cover their bases. Lol
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 3y ago
  Yup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_IT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_IT

yed 3y ago

Cisco doesn’t really sell this stuff directly, you have to buy through resellers.