4 ms·

Even in Iran, the place for zoroastrianism, the towers of silence I've seen are completely unused for decades. I've visited ie one in Yazd just outside the city

by jajko 3y ago

Even in Iran, the place for zoroastrianism, the towers of silence I've seen are completely unused for decades. I've visited ie one in Yazd just outside the city some 8 years ago when international relationships were at highest point (if I knew I would go there ten times, absolutely amazing country and people, completely unspoiled by mass tourism). Zoroastrianism is fascinating and probably first major monotheistic religion and later ie judaism took a heavy inspiration from it. So much for everybody yelling how holiest their truth is and how chosen they specifically are, a lot of folks and mankind overall would benefit massively if they traveled more and more remote. I know I did. They have concrete building not far where they put their dead instead, forgot the exact procedure unfortunately but clearly its still ok within their religion. If in holiest city of whole religion which houses 'eternal flame' they can manage this, maybe other places should take a note too?

rustcleaner 3y ago
Take with a grain of salt, but if Robert Sepehr's videos have any truth to them then the history and traditions which interweave from that time and place are rich and far reaching. Sepehr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xf4FOpS1rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xf4FOpS1rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBkgI34mMH0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBkgI34mMH0 NOT Sepehr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fI8rXPalMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fI8rXPalMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcMUBpC4leM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcMUBpC4leM (Do your due dilligence!)
- rustcleaner 3y ago
  OUCH link 3 went private! It is titled "Sex The Secret Gate to Eden Gnostic Teachings" by Thelema Press and should be found elsewhere (if I notice it seemingly fully disappear, I can make it re-appear so seekers may find it and imbibe).
  - kortex 3y ago
    It's not every day you come across Gnostic stuff on HN, but those links are super fascinating, I can't wait to check them out! Zoroastrianism is such a fascinating topic.
- tazu 3y ago
  Sepehr is by far my favorite anthropologist, his videos are great.
psunavy03 3y ago
> Even in Iran, the place for Zoroastrianism, the Towers of Silence I've seen are completely unused for decades. The fact that Iran is for all intents and purposes an Islamic theocracy with a veneer of democracy on top probably has something to do with this.
- xhevahir 3y ago
  Yeah, no kidding. Iran hasn't been "the place for Zoroastrianism" in a very long time.
  - jajko 3y ago
    If you think that Zoroastrianism there is heavily punished there by authorities, you are severely mistaken. Officially their number is roughly the same as in India, but in reality its much much more and they face no repressions that I could anyhow see or gather from talking to locals. But its not hard to understand why official numbers would not represent reality, unlike say in India which is cca democracy and this group is quite powerful there. Or do you have more of personal experiences from Iran that contradict mine? I've also been to beautifully restored old christian church in the heart of the big city (forgot which one, maybe Isfahan), no issues I just went in, there were masses happening there regularly. No hassle anywhere.
    - moneywoes 3y ago
      is the decline due to the restriction around who can convert into the religion
      - vundercind 3y ago
        I think it’s also one of those doesn’t-seek-converts plus you-leave-if-you-marry-outside religions. Those two things plus lots of secrecy around actual beliefs and practices (that one’s less of a problem with Zoroastrianism iirc) seemed to always be factors in a book I once read about vanishing near-East religions. Basically mimetic-evolutionary action, if the religion has the wrong properties it’ll tend to decline.
kortilla 3y ago
> So much for everybody yelling how holiest their truth is and how chosen they specifically are This is a non-sequitur and travel definitely will not solve the issue. People are very well aware of the many other religions even now currently being practiced and are still convinced theirs is correct.
- jajko 3y ago
  I am not claiming it will automatically click with every single simpleton who has been spoon fed one single truth since birth, thats extremely hard place to ever get from. But seeing culture, people, history, and religions too puts a massive perspective change. I could see that ie my wife traveling across India backpacking had her eyes opened quite brutally compared to her strict catholic upbringing, and it was definitely this cultural/religious shock. Seeing other religions as equal to yours - how many folks do you know that actually have that? Seeing refugees not as bothersome scum coming to rape and steal and take social payments but same people as you, with same type of dreams, fears etc... again this ain't something you will ever get to from watching news, and that's how most people get all their relevant info, thats the folks likes of trump feed from, from their fears and hate for things they don't actually know, only heard about. Being treated the nicest from poorest people of the world (dalits in India in my case), complete stranger yet they shared the very little they had with me, and helped me tremendously, repeatedly. There is tons of islamophobia in Europe, especially in eastern part but I can see it literally everywhere. Most folks like that I talked to have absolutely 0 clue, they just pick few worst news about terrorism attacks, some 'alternate' media talking same stuff for 2 decades. Yes going to all-inclusive package tour to say Egypt and staying in absolute tourist bubble for 2 weeks ain't going to change anybody. I wasn't talking about that sort of traveling, but exact opposite of it.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    > Seeing other religions as equal to yours - how many folks do you know that actually have that? I’m not sure what country you’re from, but in my current city there are large successful populations of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Christians, and Buddhists. If you grow up not exposed to that, I can see how travel might help for people with an open mind. But let me assure you, a very annoyingly large percentage of the population (something like 20%) thinks everyone not in their religion is a lesser human.
moneywoes 3y ago
what did you learn? very interested

by jajko 3y ago

rustcleaner 3y ago

Take with a grain of salt, but if Robert Sepehr's videos have any truth to them then the history and traditions which interweave from that time and place are rich and far reaching. Sepehr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xf4FOpS1rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xf4FOpS1rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBkgI34mMH0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBkgI34mMH0 NOT Sepehr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fI8rXPalMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fI8rXPalMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcMUBpC4leM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcMUBpC4leM (Do your due dilligence!)

rustcleaner 3y ago
OUCH link 3 went private! It is titled "Sex The Secret Gate to Eden Gnostic Teachings" by Thelema Press and should be found elsewhere (if I notice it seemingly fully disappear, I can make it re-appear so seekers may find it and imbibe).
- kortex 3y ago
  It's not every day you come across Gnostic stuff on HN, but those links are super fascinating, I can't wait to check them out! Zoroastrianism is such a fascinating topic.
tazu 3y ago
Sepehr is by far my favorite anthropologist, his videos are great.

psunavy03 3y ago

> Even in Iran, the place for Zoroastrianism, the Towers of Silence I've seen are completely unused for decades. The fact that Iran is for all intents and purposes an Islamic theocracy with a veneer of democracy on top probably has something to do with this.

xhevahir 3y ago
Yeah, no kidding. Iran hasn't been "the place for Zoroastrianism" in a very long time.
- jajko 3y ago
  If you think that Zoroastrianism there is heavily punished there by authorities, you are severely mistaken. Officially their number is roughly the same as in India, but in reality its much much more and they face no repressions that I could anyhow see or gather from talking to locals. But its not hard to understand why official numbers would not represent reality, unlike say in India which is cca democracy and this group is quite powerful there. Or do you have more of personal experiences from Iran that contradict mine? I've also been to beautifully restored old christian church in the heart of the big city (forgot which one, maybe Isfahan), no issues I just went in, there were masses happening there regularly. No hassle anywhere.
  - moneywoes 3y ago
    is the decline due to the restriction around who can convert into the religion
    - vundercind 3y ago
      I think it’s also one of those doesn’t-seek-converts plus you-leave-if-you-marry-outside religions. Those two things plus lots of secrecy around actual beliefs and practices (that one’s less of a problem with Zoroastrianism iirc) seemed to always be factors in a book I once read about vanishing near-East religions. Basically mimetic-evolutionary action, if the religion has the wrong properties it’ll tend to decline.

kortilla 3y ago

> So much for everybody yelling how holiest their truth is and how chosen they specifically are This is a non-sequitur and travel definitely will not solve the issue. People are very well aware of the many other religions even now currently being practiced and are still convinced theirs is correct.

jajko 3y ago
I am not claiming it will automatically click with every single simpleton who has been spoon fed one single truth since birth, thats extremely hard place to ever get from. But seeing culture, people, history, and religions too puts a massive perspective change. I could see that ie my wife traveling across India backpacking had her eyes opened quite brutally compared to her strict catholic upbringing, and it was definitely this cultural/religious shock. Seeing other religions as equal to yours - how many folks do you know that actually have that? Seeing refugees not as bothersome scum coming to rape and steal and take social payments but same people as you, with same type of dreams, fears etc... again this ain't something you will ever get to from watching news, and that's how most people get all their relevant info, thats the folks likes of trump feed from, from their fears and hate for things they don't actually know, only heard about. Being treated the nicest from poorest people of the world (dalits in India in my case), complete stranger yet they shared the very little they had with me, and helped me tremendously, repeatedly. There is tons of islamophobia in Europe, especially in eastern part but I can see it literally everywhere. Most folks like that I talked to have absolutely 0 clue, they just pick few worst news about terrorism attacks, some 'alternate' media talking same stuff for 2 decades. Yes going to all-inclusive package tour to say Egypt and staying in absolute tourist bubble for 2 weeks ain't going to change anybody. I wasn't talking about that sort of traveling, but exact opposite of it.
- kortilla 3y ago
  > Seeing other religions as equal to yours - how many folks do you know that actually have that? I’m not sure what country you’re from, but in my current city there are large successful populations of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Christians, and Buddhists. If you grow up not exposed to that, I can see how travel might help for people with an open mind. But let me assure you, a very annoyingly large percentage of the population (something like 20%) thinks everyone not in their religion is a lesser human.

moneywoes 3y ago

what did you learn? very interested