4 ms·

I'm in South East, USA, vice the Indian subcontinent. Did something happen here within the last year? (Maybe the same thing?) I haven't seen vultures (Turkey vu

I'm in South East, USA, vice the Indian subcontinent. Did something happen here within the last year? (Maybe the same thing?) I haven't seen vultures (Turkey vultures) in maybe 3/4 of a year. They are usually ubiquitous and highly visible due to large wingspan, staying airborne for long periods etc, using thermals from roads/concrete etc that make them common in human-populated areas.

hedora 3y ago
We have a lot of turkey vultures here in California. A few years ago, we found a few fresh dead (poisoned) rats in our barn. The turkey vulture population immediately dropped to zero at our house, and the rodent population skyrocketed for the next year. Please use traps (electrocution or old-fashioned wood and metal spring work best. The electrocution ones are more pet-friendly), and not poison to deal with your vermin. On a related note, we also have started to get Peregrine Falcons and Bald Eagles again. Hopefully those populations will continue to recover too. Poisoned rodents often wander around confused and screaming before they die, and if they do that in a field, they can take out a bird of prey instead of just the vultures. Seriously, just use the traps. They are way more humane. Also, you won’t have to fish dead animals out of your vents and walls.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  I went birding this morning near Ithaca, NY. Five turkey vultures, a bald eagle, and a kestrel (which caught and ate a mouse while we were watching) were among the species seen (and so many kinds of warblers. Really, why are there so many kinds of warblers?) I often see turkey vultures near our house (once a swooping flock of a dozen of them riding the wind coming up from the lake). Black vultures are starting to appear in this area also, most notably at the Cornell U. compost piles.
- bitwize 3y ago
  RatX, MouseX, and RatRid baits by EcoClear use a combination of gluten and salt to dehydrate the rodent, rather than poisoning it with toxins. Supposedly, they work well against rats and mice while being safe for larger animals, including birds of prey, to consume. People may wish to consider using these baits as well for rodent control. https://ecoclearproducts.com/ https://ecoclearproducts.com/ One of my favorite pest-control measures is furry and purrs when I stroke him. Currently we don't have rodents, but he likes to catch insects as well.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    Cats generally don’t like hunting rats
    - tomrod 3y ago
      Funny, our barn cats growing up loved hunting everything, including rats. Maybe indoor cats might not be so inclined though.
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        https://crittercontroloftampa.com/blog/do-cats-get-rid-of-rats/ https://crittercontroloftampa.com/blog/do-cats-get-rid-of-ra...
        shkkmo 3y ago
        That seems like a biased source given they nake money killing rats.
        tomrod 3y ago
        This link speaks to a different point with regard to effectiveness, not apparent enjoyment. (And to be fair to the barn cats, they did pretty well keeping not only rats and mice down, but also snakes and scorpions)
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        They don’t hunt rats because the rats are large enough to threaten the cat. They probably would win 95% of those fights cleanly but it’s risky enough to not be worthwhile. Enjoyment is certainly not a differentiating thing. These are urban rats specifically which are larger and may not apply to country rats
        tomrod 3y ago
        I'll grant some cats don't hunt rats. In our case it was more suburban rats, sometimes they did get big, yes.
b112 3y ago
It's a well established fact that animal populations are cyclictic, booming then starving, then booming again. Predator finds prey aplenty, and so is fruitful and multiplies. Then prey becomes so numerous, it eats prey until there are few left. Predator then has a population crash, and the prey rebound without predation. Over and over this happens. Is that what is happening here? Perhaps, as carrion eaters are susceptible too, when this happens to other populations. After all, during this cycle prey and predator both crash... leaving less carrion. And then of course carrion eaters can overpopulate too.. So I wonder, is this just another clickbait headline?
- nothercastle 3y ago
  Nah it’s probably rat poison here
- rangerelf 3y ago
  Nice try Mr. Rat Poison Salesman.
- yawpitch 3y ago
  > So I wonder, is this just another clickbait headline? No. As the article makes abundantly clear there’s plenty of carrion, it’s just poisoned. Nothing natural about it.
  - b112 3y ago
    I see that's not even traditional poison, but instead something meant to help the cattle. Unfortunate.
    - yawpitch 3y ago
      It’s not meant to help the cattle, it’s meant to preserve profits by treating the cattle for a disease they only have because they’re kept in unsanitary and overcrowded conditions. The loss of the towers of silence is a turducken of human incompetence.
- totalconfusion 3y ago
Shawnj2 3y ago
IIRC the issue is that new common drugs for humans contain toxins that are deadly to vultures in high doses. One issue with just creating a vulture sanctuary around towers of silence is that it’s nearly impossible to tell if a person has had any of those drugs and if so how much. Plus in that culture cremation/other forms of disposing of bodies are essentially sacrilege because the idea is that having the body touch the earth, fire, or water would be a bad thing which is why they do sky burials in the first place so it’s not like they can just refuse burials.
codezero 3y ago
I am in the South East too, but I see lots of vultures, but one weird? thing I noticed in the past 4 years is that I see them a lot more often in suburban areas/on sidewalks eating roadkill than I had seen them in the past (usually seeing them circling freeways or rural areas)
nukeman 3y ago
Old World Vultures are not closely related to New World Vultures (which are closer to storks). The mechanism which kills vultures in India and Africa does not present the same issue in vultures native to North America.
- LAC-Tech 3y ago
  All my schoolboy taxonomy feels useless now! Crazy that it was convergent evolution.
- mkl 3y ago
  The bit about being closer to storks seems disputed, and contradicted by more recent DNA evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_vulture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_vulture
devilbunny 3y ago
Turkey vultures still going strong in my part of the SE USA.
Ichthypresbyter 3y ago
Maybe they flew north? I've seen plenty of them in Maryland this spring.
NPC82 3y ago
Here's a link to the general region you describe ordered by most recent sightings. You can zoom in on your specific location and look deeper or draw a new boundary. Hope this helps! https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?nelat=40.70147790176285&nelng=-74.62185684089198&place_id=any&subview=map&swlat=24.831627471974347&swlng=-92.28787246589198&taxon_id=559244 https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?nelat=40.7014779017...

hedora 3y ago

We have a lot of turkey vultures here in California. A few years ago, we found a few fresh dead (poisoned) rats in our barn. The turkey vulture population immediately dropped to zero at our house, and the rodent population skyrocketed for the next year. Please use traps (electrocution or old-fashioned wood and metal spring work best. The electrocution ones are more pet-friendly), and not poison to deal with your vermin. On a related note, we also have started to get Peregrine Falcons and Bald Eagles again. Hopefully those populations will continue to recover too. Poisoned rodents often wander around confused and screaming before they die, and if they do that in a field, they can take out a bird of prey instead of just the vultures. Seriously, just use the traps. They are way more humane. Also, you won’t have to fish dead animals out of your vents and walls.

pfdietz 3y ago
I went birding this morning near Ithaca, NY. Five turkey vultures, a bald eagle, and a kestrel (which caught and ate a mouse while we were watching) were among the species seen (and so many kinds of warblers. Really, why are there so many kinds of warblers?) I often see turkey vultures near our house (once a swooping flock of a dozen of them riding the wind coming up from the lake). Black vultures are starting to appear in this area also, most notably at the Cornell U. compost piles.
bitwize 3y ago
RatX, MouseX, and RatRid baits by EcoClear use a combination of gluten and salt to dehydrate the rodent, rather than poisoning it with toxins. Supposedly, they work well against rats and mice while being safe for larger animals, including birds of prey, to consume. People may wish to consider using these baits as well for rodent control. https://ecoclearproducts.com/ https://ecoclearproducts.com/ One of my favorite pest-control measures is furry and purrs when I stroke him. Currently we don't have rodents, but he likes to catch insects as well.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Cats generally don’t like hunting rats
  - tomrod 3y ago
    Funny, our barn cats growing up loved hunting everything, including rats. Maybe indoor cats might not be so inclined though.
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      https://crittercontroloftampa.com/blog/do-cats-get-rid-of-rats/ https://crittercontroloftampa.com/blog/do-cats-get-rid-of-ra...
      - shkkmo 3y ago
        That seems like a biased source given they nake money killing rats.
      - tomrod 3y ago
        This link speaks to a different point with regard to effectiveness, not apparent enjoyment. (And to be fair to the barn cats, they did pretty well keeping not only rats and mice down, but also snakes and scorpions)
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        They don’t hunt rats because the rats are large enough to threaten the cat. They probably would win 95% of those fights cleanly but it’s risky enough to not be worthwhile. Enjoyment is certainly not a differentiating thing. These are urban rats specifically which are larger and may not apply to country rats
        tomrod 3y ago
        I'll grant some cats don't hunt rats. In our case it was more suburban rats, sometimes they did get big, yes.

b112 3y ago

It's a well established fact that animal populations are cyclictic, booming then starving, then booming again. Predator finds prey aplenty, and so is fruitful and multiplies. Then prey becomes so numerous, it eats prey until there are few left. Predator then has a population crash, and the prey rebound without predation. Over and over this happens. Is that what is happening here? Perhaps, as carrion eaters are susceptible too, when this happens to other populations. After all, during this cycle prey and predator both crash... leaving less carrion. And then of course carrion eaters can overpopulate too.. So I wonder, is this just another clickbait headline?

nothercastle 3y ago
Nah it’s probably rat poison here
rangerelf 3y ago
Nice try Mr. Rat Poison Salesman.
yawpitch 3y ago
> So I wonder, is this just another clickbait headline? No. As the article makes abundantly clear there’s plenty of carrion, it’s just poisoned. Nothing natural about it.
- b112 3y ago
  I see that's not even traditional poison, but instead something meant to help the cattle. Unfortunate.
  - yawpitch 3y ago
    It’s not meant to help the cattle, it’s meant to preserve profits by treating the cattle for a disease they only have because they’re kept in unsanitary and overcrowded conditions. The loss of the towers of silence is a turducken of human incompetence.
totalconfusion 3y ago

Shawnj2 3y ago

IIRC the issue is that new common drugs for humans contain toxins that are deadly to vultures in high doses. One issue with just creating a vulture sanctuary around towers of silence is that it’s nearly impossible to tell if a person has had any of those drugs and if so how much. Plus in that culture cremation/other forms of disposing of bodies are essentially sacrilege because the idea is that having the body touch the earth, fire, or water would be a bad thing which is why they do sky burials in the first place so it’s not like they can just refuse burials.

codezero 3y ago

I am in the South East too, but I see lots of vultures, but one weird? thing I noticed in the past 4 years is that I see them a lot more often in suburban areas/on sidewalks eating roadkill than I had seen them in the past (usually seeing them circling freeways or rural areas)

nukeman 3y ago

Old World Vultures are not closely related to New World Vultures (which are closer to storks). The mechanism which kills vultures in India and Africa does not present the same issue in vultures native to North America.

LAC-Tech 3y ago
All my schoolboy taxonomy feels useless now! Crazy that it was convergent evolution.
mkl 3y ago
The bit about being closer to storks seems disputed, and contradicted by more recent DNA evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_vulture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_vulture

devilbunny 3y ago

Turkey vultures still going strong in my part of the SE USA.

Ichthypresbyter 3y ago

Maybe they flew north? I've seen plenty of them in Maryland this spring.

NPC82 3y ago

Here's a link to the general region you describe ordered by most recent sightings. You can zoom in on your specific location and look deeper or draw a new boundary. Hope this helps! https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?nelat=40.70147790176285&nelng=-74.62185684089198&place_id=any&subview=map&swlat=24.831627471974347&swlng=-92.28787246589198&taxon_id=559244 https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?nelat=40.7014779017...