5 ms·

People don't like cyclists because their only interaction with cyclists is when they're holding up traffic.

et-al 2y ago
Eh, drivers don't even like other drivers. Take road rage for example. Windshield perspective (or myopia) and car brain are both real phenomena: - https://grist.org/cities/2011-01-25-if-driving-is-so-great-why-are-you-so-mad-at-the-people-walking/ https://grist.org/cities/2011-01-25-if-driving-is-so-great-w... - https://archive.is/umBJv https://archive.is/umBJv
rafaelmn 2y ago
Also they can be very vegan about it.
wpm 2y ago
Read: making someone drive slower to the next red light 100 feet ahead. At least that’s my experience in Chicago.
- dailykoder 2y ago
  We should all just look out for each other. Mostly follow the rules, but don't let common sense go abroad. There are so many cyclists in berlin that just go in front of all the cars at a red light, even it's just one car in front of them. I know that this car can accelerate way faster than me and drives way faster, why would I want to block it and make the driver mad? Yes, if the road is congested I might pass the cars too, because I realize I am faster, but everything else just doesn't make sense to me.
  - matsemann 2y ago
    "We should all look out for each other" is unfortunately often code for "cyclists should yield at all times and have a sixth sense to avoid getting killed by impatient or distracted drivers". I was biking in the cycle lane the other day, going straight. A car came up next to me, and suddenly turned right to get off the road. I got the tingles just before and suspected it, so I managed to break and avoid being right hooked. I shared the video online, and most comments I've gotten is how I should've been more careful (I was, hence no accident..), how I should have avoided the car's blind spot (the driver pulled up and put me there, and should've known I was there..) and lots and lots of comments about how I just should be a team player and let the car pass. Everyone used the "we should all look out for each other" to victim blame me..
    - dailykoder 2y ago
      >"cyclists should yield at all times and have a sixth sense to avoid getting killed by impatient or distracted drivers". And that is literally true. Yes, cars should be more careful, but it's a fact that it's easy to overlook a cyclist. As my motorcycle instructor said during our first theory lesson: "So you are all here because you have suicidal tendencies, right?". And he was right. And it's even more true with cyclists. No one says that this is a good thing tho.
      - kqr 2y ago
        > And it's even more true with cyclists. I'm fairly sure the average cyclist has a longer healthy lifespan than both the average motorcyclist and carist.
      - cycomanic 2y ago
        That's why laws like in Denmark and the Netherlands (not 100% sure if it's both countries) are needed. Cars are automatically at fault (not always 100% though) when there is an with a cyclist or pedestrian as it is expected that the "stronger" person has to take more responsibility.
      - fmbb 2y ago
        Motorcyclists and bicyclists do not face the same dangers in traffic. I don’t see the relation to the extreme fatality of motorcycling.
    - getwiththeprog 2y ago
      Big people (cars) should look out for the little people (bicycles).
  - petre 2y ago
    Bike boxes are made for a reason: so that the motorists see the bike in front of them and don't hit it during a right turn.
    - dailykoder 2y ago
      That's true. There are too many different cases, that's why I am saying common sense. If there is a bike box, go ahead and use it. If there is none, then be prepared to not be seen by the car. Traffic is just complex. PS: In my experience, if there is a bike box, then there is also often a separate bike lane. I was mainly speaking about roads where there is no real bike lane. If there is one, then most things just work out fine.
      - petre 2y ago
        One only needs to be in the bike box until the traffic light turns green, then one could steer towards the margin and let the cars pass.
    - kqr 2y ago
      I agree -- bike boxes are quite miraculous. They're the one instance where paint actually is infrastructure, and I use them any time I can just to show other cyclists that they are allowed to. But to add some nuance to the argument: bike boxes are an improvement over filtering up on the side of the road. Doing what (I assume) GP did and taking the lane behind waiting cars is about as safe, because any other cars coming up from behind ought to see you as they roll up to you, being that you are in front of them and not to the side. (And they're already paying forward attention thanks to the car ahead of you.)
kqr 2y ago
This one surprises me because it seems far more common to me that cars hold up traffic than bicycles. When you look at images of traffic jams it's almost always other cars in the way, not bicycles. I suppose maybe it's a city/countryside thing? Cars are great at long straights, but they take forever to safely clear an intersection compared to a bicycle -- and they block most of the road while they do.
- stouset 2y ago
  It’s an outgroup thing. It’s “normal” to be held up by traffic. It’s novel being delayed by a cyclist. Plus you’re doing something important and their leisure is getting my way! When a cyclist does something unexpected, it’s extremely dangerous; pay no mind that they’re the one in 95% of the danger. When a fellow driver speeds, rolls through a stop sign, or fails to yield it’s lost in a sea of normalized deviance. No matter that car accidents are a leading cause of death.
  - matsemann 2y ago
    Yup. I have coworkers driving to work complain to me about some cyclist they met on the way to work. Like, why..? I'm not responsible for that just because I also bike. It's not like I harass every driver I meet at work just because some driver killed a child again in the city. And all their interactions with stupid drivers? Quickly forgotten a moment later.
    - nemo8551 2y ago
      I’m a mountain biker, I even internally complain about some road cyclists. The ones who take up far more of the road than necessary, granted because they can, and slow you down prior to traffic lights meaning you hit a red. But when you hit a red, they swerve onto the pavement, across the junction with the pedestrians and then onwards beyond the red light while I’m still sat at the red. All while not dismounting from their bike. In the UK, where I live they should stop at the light and not pretend to be a pedestrian. But they’re also entitled to the road, but when they ride in a manner that means I would have to veer well into the oncoming lane to get around them it’s just not worth it. A wee bit if there’s no traffic is fine, but not too much.
rsingel 2y ago
Cyclists are traffic.
globular-toast 2y ago
Cyclists don't hold up traffic. They are tiny and very easy to overtake if they are too slow. Cars hold up traffic because they're too big to overtake anything.
ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
It's very rare for cyclists to be holding up traffic for anything more than a few seconds and usually only in specific scenarios (e.g. going up a hill on a narrow road). It's far more common for motorised vehicle congestion to be the thing adding delays to people's journeys and bizarrely, there's a common mindset amongst drivers to always want to overtake cyclists even when just a cursory glance ahead shows that they can only make a tiny bit of progress until they join the queue at the next junction. It's referred to as Must Get In Front (MGIF) and annoys me when cycling as often an unsafe overtake will be performed by a driver and then I'll go filtering past them a few seconds later - why overtake when it makes no difference to your journey time?

Eh, drivers don't even like other drivers. Take road rage for example. Windshield perspective (or myopia) and car brain are both real phenomena: - https://grist.org/cities/2011-01-25-if-driving-is-so-great-why-are-you-so-mad-at-the-people-walking/ https://grist.org/cities/2011-01-25-if-driving-is-so-great-w... - https://archive.is/umBJv https://archive.is/umBJv

rafaelmn 2y ago

Also they can be very vegan about it.

wpm 2y ago

Read: making someone drive slower to the next red light 100 feet ahead. At least that’s my experience in Chicago.

dailykoder 2y ago
We should all just look out for each other. Mostly follow the rules, but don't let common sense go abroad. There are so many cyclists in berlin that just go in front of all the cars at a red light, even it's just one car in front of them. I know that this car can accelerate way faster than me and drives way faster, why would I want to block it and make the driver mad? Yes, if the road is congested I might pass the cars too, because I realize I am faster, but everything else just doesn't make sense to me.
- matsemann 2y ago
  "We should all look out for each other" is unfortunately often code for "cyclists should yield at all times and have a sixth sense to avoid getting killed by impatient or distracted drivers". I was biking in the cycle lane the other day, going straight. A car came up next to me, and suddenly turned right to get off the road. I got the tingles just before and suspected it, so I managed to break and avoid being right hooked. I shared the video online, and most comments I've gotten is how I should've been more careful (I was, hence no accident..), how I should have avoided the car's blind spot (the driver pulled up and put me there, and should've known I was there..) and lots and lots of comments about how I just should be a team player and let the car pass. Everyone used the "we should all look out for each other" to victim blame me..
  - dailykoder 2y ago
    >"cyclists should yield at all times and have a sixth sense to avoid getting killed by impatient or distracted drivers". And that is literally true. Yes, cars should be more careful, but it's a fact that it's easy to overlook a cyclist. As my motorcycle instructor said during our first theory lesson: "So you are all here because you have suicidal tendencies, right?". And he was right. And it's even more true with cyclists. No one says that this is a good thing tho.
    - kqr 2y ago
      > And it's even more true with cyclists. I'm fairly sure the average cyclist has a longer healthy lifespan than both the average motorcyclist and carist.
    - cycomanic 2y ago
      That's why laws like in Denmark and the Netherlands (not 100% sure if it's both countries) are needed. Cars are automatically at fault (not always 100% though) when there is an with a cyclist or pedestrian as it is expected that the "stronger" person has to take more responsibility.
    - fmbb 2y ago
      Motorcyclists and bicyclists do not face the same dangers in traffic. I don’t see the relation to the extreme fatality of motorcycling.
  - getwiththeprog 2y ago
    Big people (cars) should look out for the little people (bicycles).
- petre 2y ago
  Bike boxes are made for a reason: so that the motorists see the bike in front of them and don't hit it during a right turn.
  - dailykoder 2y ago
    That's true. There are too many different cases, that's why I am saying common sense. If there is a bike box, go ahead and use it. If there is none, then be prepared to not be seen by the car. Traffic is just complex. PS: In my experience, if there is a bike box, then there is also often a separate bike lane. I was mainly speaking about roads where there is no real bike lane. If there is one, then most things just work out fine.
    - petre 2y ago
      One only needs to be in the bike box until the traffic light turns green, then one could steer towards the margin and let the cars pass.
  - kqr 2y ago
    I agree -- bike boxes are quite miraculous. They're the one instance where paint actually is infrastructure, and I use them any time I can just to show other cyclists that they are allowed to. But to add some nuance to the argument: bike boxes are an improvement over filtering up on the side of the road. Doing what (I assume) GP did and taking the lane behind waiting cars is about as safe, because any other cars coming up from behind ought to see you as they roll up to you, being that you are in front of them and not to the side. (And they're already paying forward attention thanks to the car ahead of you.)

kqr 2y ago

This one surprises me because it seems far more common to me that cars hold up traffic than bicycles. When you look at images of traffic jams it's almost always other cars in the way, not bicycles. I suppose maybe it's a city/countryside thing? Cars are great at long straights, but they take forever to safely clear an intersection compared to a bicycle -- and they block most of the road while they do.

stouset 2y ago
It’s an outgroup thing. It’s “normal” to be held up by traffic. It’s novel being delayed by a cyclist. Plus you’re doing something important and their leisure is getting my way! When a cyclist does something unexpected, it’s extremely dangerous; pay no mind that they’re the one in 95% of the danger. When a fellow driver speeds, rolls through a stop sign, or fails to yield it’s lost in a sea of normalized deviance. No matter that car accidents are a leading cause of death.
- matsemann 2y ago
  Yup. I have coworkers driving to work complain to me about some cyclist they met on the way to work. Like, why..? I'm not responsible for that just because I also bike. It's not like I harass every driver I meet at work just because some driver killed a child again in the city. And all their interactions with stupid drivers? Quickly forgotten a moment later.
  - nemo8551 2y ago
    I’m a mountain biker, I even internally complain about some road cyclists. The ones who take up far more of the road than necessary, granted because they can, and slow you down prior to traffic lights meaning you hit a red. But when you hit a red, they swerve onto the pavement, across the junction with the pedestrians and then onwards beyond the red light while I’m still sat at the red. All while not dismounting from their bike. In the UK, where I live they should stop at the light and not pretend to be a pedestrian. But they’re also entitled to the road, but when they ride in a manner that means I would have to veer well into the oncoming lane to get around them it’s just not worth it. A wee bit if there’s no traffic is fine, but not too much.

rsingel 2y ago

Cyclists are traffic.

globular-toast 2y ago

Cyclists don't hold up traffic. They are tiny and very easy to overtake if they are too slow. Cars hold up traffic because they're too big to overtake anything.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

It's very rare for cyclists to be holding up traffic for anything more than a few seconds and usually only in specific scenarios (e.g. going up a hill on a narrow road). It's far more common for motorised vehicle congestion to be the thing adding delays to people's journeys and bizarrely, there's a common mindset amongst drivers to always want to overtake cyclists even when just a cursory glance ahead shows that they can only make a tiny bit of progress until they join the queue at the next junction. It's referred to as Must Get In Front (MGIF) and annoys me when cycling as often an unsafe overtake will be performed by a driver and then I'll go filtering past them a few seconds later - why overtake when it makes no difference to your journey time?