4 ms·

The issue right now is that the housing crisis has progressed to the point where the legal system is breaking down. At least where I live, the landlord and tena

The issue right now is that the housing crisis has progressed to the point where the legal system is breaking down. At least where I live, the landlord and tenant board (which adjudicates claims between landlords and tenants) is backlogged 18-24 months or more. Many tenants realize this and have started taking advantage by refusing to pay rent altogether, knowing they’re protected from eviction by law (until their day comes to be brought before the board). For their part, landlords have completely lost trust in the system and demand excruciating levels of background checks and references and personal information to try and avoid these bad tenants. All the while raising the rent to exorbitant levels (due to hot real estate market and low vacancies). It’s become an incredibly vicious situation!

bluefirebrand 3y ago
Hey if the landlords are tired of renting out property because it's too hard they could sell instead! No sympathy for rent seekers that would rather let their buildings sit empty than rent below the absolute maximum they can get
- RHSeeger 3y ago
  If all the landlords sold, there would be no place for the people that want to rent. Sure, some landlords will sit on a property rather than rent it for less than max. And some landlords will rent for the absolute minimum that pays the bills (and doesn't account for risk, load, etc). But lots of landlords are in the middle, renting for a fair price, treating their renters reasonably, etc. And forcing them out of the market isn't going to help the overall health of the system.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Maybe the price drops enough so that the renters can afford to buy.
    - RHSeeger 3y ago
      Not everyone _wants_ to buy. Why is that so hard for people to understand? I have rented at times in my life and owned at other times. Sometimes owning is not the right choice.
      - bombcar 2y ago
        We need supply to expand to where there's ready housing available and then people will realize that landlords do exist for a reason; if they didn't commercial landlords wouldn't exist at all. Some major chains like Walmart own the stores they operate in, but others operate on various leases.
kube-system 3y ago
Yeah, being a good person plays both ways. It is a shame when tenants squat, and it's a shame when landlords avoid their legal obligations when they know their tenants can't effectively do anything about it. My point is that sitting in court won't turn a bad experience into a good one.
asdefghyk 3y ago
RE ".... landlords have completely lost trust in the system and demand excruciating levels of background checks and references and personal information to try and avoid these bad tenants......" It appears OVER THE TOP However Im about to hand over an asset valued at a large amount so it is entirely reasonable. I've had applications where person has edited PDF documents to fake them. Ie bank statements. Revealed with forensic analysis. Applications with fake references are not unusual. Its like a bank application. The data is needed to catch these bad people out. Insurance normally does not cover these situations.
- foldr 3y ago
  IMO what's really needed is for most of these 'checks' to be made illegal. Then those who are willing and prepared to take on the risks associated with being a landlord can do it. Many other industries have regulations preventing all sorts of background checks that companies might otherwise want to do (e.g. insurance).
  - asdefghyk 3y ago
    The side effect of your proposal would be rent increases and a decrease in supply in dwellings, as less people would be prepared to accept the risk, That's my prediction after almost 40 years supplying several rental properties. You should tell banks and other lenders the same thing, do not ask so many questions.
    - foldr 3y ago
      That is a generic argument that can be used against any form of regulation on the rental market. As the proportion of people who rent increases, I suspect that there will be growing political pressure to ban these intrusions and humiliations. (I wonder if you share your own bank statements with your tenants?)
      - bombcar 2y ago
        Amusingly enough that's becoming an issue in some places; people "rent" properties they don't own and then skip town with the deposits and leave the owner with an unexpected tenant to evict.
forgetfreeman 3y ago
It fascinates me how pervasive the housing crisis narrative has become when in point of fact the real issue is economic opportunity has been stolen from rural and small communities. It fascinates me even further when the housing crisis narrative is used to justify municipalities greenlighting (and in some cases subsidizing) wildly profitable real estate development projects that generally make all of the issues collectively referred to as the housing crisis objectively worse in the communities these projects were intended to serve.

bluefirebrand 3y ago

Hey if the landlords are tired of renting out property because it's too hard they could sell instead! No sympathy for rent seekers that would rather let their buildings sit empty than rent below the absolute maximum they can get

RHSeeger 3y ago
If all the landlords sold, there would be no place for the people that want to rent. Sure, some landlords will sit on a property rather than rent it for less than max. And some landlords will rent for the absolute minimum that pays the bills (and doesn't account for risk, load, etc). But lots of landlords are in the middle, renting for a fair price, treating their renters reasonably, etc. And forcing them out of the market isn't going to help the overall health of the system.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Maybe the price drops enough so that the renters can afford to buy.
  - RHSeeger 3y ago
    Not everyone _wants_ to buy. Why is that so hard for people to understand? I have rented at times in my life and owned at other times. Sometimes owning is not the right choice.
    - bombcar 2y ago
      We need supply to expand to where there's ready housing available and then people will realize that landlords do exist for a reason; if they didn't commercial landlords wouldn't exist at all. Some major chains like Walmart own the stores they operate in, but others operate on various leases.

kube-system 3y ago

Yeah, being a good person plays both ways. It is a shame when tenants squat, and it's a shame when landlords avoid their legal obligations when they know their tenants can't effectively do anything about it. My point is that sitting in court won't turn a bad experience into a good one.

asdefghyk 3y ago

RE ".... landlords have completely lost trust in the system and demand excruciating levels of background checks and references and personal information to try and avoid these bad tenants......" It appears OVER THE TOP However Im about to hand over an asset valued at a large amount so it is entirely reasonable. I've had applications where person has edited PDF documents to fake them. Ie bank statements. Revealed with forensic analysis. Applications with fake references are not unusual. Its like a bank application. The data is needed to catch these bad people out. Insurance normally does not cover these situations.

foldr 3y ago
IMO what's really needed is for most of these 'checks' to be made illegal. Then those who are willing and prepared to take on the risks associated with being a landlord can do it. Many other industries have regulations preventing all sorts of background checks that companies might otherwise want to do (e.g. insurance).
- asdefghyk 3y ago
  The side effect of your proposal would be rent increases and a decrease in supply in dwellings, as less people would be prepared to accept the risk, That's my prediction after almost 40 years supplying several rental properties. You should tell banks and other lenders the same thing, do not ask so many questions.
  - foldr 3y ago
    That is a generic argument that can be used against any form of regulation on the rental market. As the proportion of people who rent increases, I suspect that there will be growing political pressure to ban these intrusions and humiliations. (I wonder if you share your own bank statements with your tenants?)
    - bombcar 2y ago
      Amusingly enough that's becoming an issue in some places; people "rent" properties they don't own and then skip town with the deposits and leave the owner with an unexpected tenant to evict.

forgetfreeman 3y ago

It fascinates me how pervasive the housing crisis narrative has become when in point of fact the real issue is economic opportunity has been stolen from rural and small communities. It fascinates me even further when the housing crisis narrative is used to justify municipalities greenlighting (and in some cases subsidizing) wildly profitable real estate development projects that generally make all of the issues collectively referred to as the housing crisis objectively worse in the communities these projects were intended to serve.