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Read the wild email Tesla is sending to suppliers amid Supercharger chaos

107 points by peutetre 3y ago

ohnoitsahuman 3y ago
Sounds like the supercharger team didn't have a good project management system. Any large entity that doesn't know the contract status, percent complete, and vendor status for it's construction is wacked. Either the new people don't know where the info is stored, or the old people were indeed incompetent and needed to be fired.
- hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
  Or maybe if you fire EVERYBODY there’s no one to onboard new people, or even anybody left who has a login. Elon needs to go, EV adoption is an important goal for species survival, he’s actively damaging those goals now - even if he did help kick off the revolution he’s now more net negative than positive as a CEO.
  - haileys 3y ago
    No. EV adoption is an important goal for the car industry's survival. If we're talking about the species' survival, I sure hope we can adopt a broader vision than taking a land-hungry and energy-intensive mode of transport, and changing nothing about it except for making it run on batteries.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      At this point I am not sure EVs are the best option in short to medium term. Outside of the US there is still a legitimate fear of range anxiety made worse by Musk's announcement. It seems to me that widespread deployment of hybrids where 95% of daily driving is done on batteries is a more workable approach.
      - haileys 3y ago
        Yes, a smarter mix of options is the way to go. Cars are a one-size-fits-all approach that can't hope to achieve what we need for a sustainable future. In Perth, Australia, two thirds of all car trips are for distances of less than 5 kilometers. Using cars for these trips is both irrational and a hopelessly profligate use of resources, regardless of how they're powered. 5 kilometers is the kind of distance where even pedal bicycles are competitive with cars in terms of trip time, especially once you factor in traffic. And e-bikes are only getting cheaper and more accessible too.
      - dgoldstein0 3y ago
        Inside the us there's also quite a bit of range anxiety. It's one of the larger adoption hold ups. That and price.
    - imperialdrive 3y ago
      Thank you for raising that, we need less cars! (More bicycles and related infrastructure would be nice) :D
      - hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
        Less cars is a worthy goal for some people in some places for some activities, and works in tandem with making the cars we do have better.
        sumeno 3y ago
        83% of the US lives in urban areas and the US has the highest transport emissions in the world. "This doesn't work for literally everyone so let's do this other thing that isn't as good"
        hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - ta_1138 3y ago
        Bicycles win when the level of density is still relatively low. If we are serious about efficiency, bikes don't make that more sense. Sufficient density so that most activity can be done on foot, and the rest is mass transit.
    - financetechbro 3y ago
      Patiently waiting for a train revolution
      - hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
        California high speed is happening slowly but surely. I think by 2030 the Central Valley will have a real HS line, and while that leaves out SFB/LA, Central Valley is fastest growing population. Likewise the LA/Vegas line looks like a real money maker on paper.
    - hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
      Tell it to the large percentage of humanity who doesn’t live in a city; many of whom grow the food you eat, and ship it to your local shop in a truck. There is no one-shot solution, motorized vehicles are not going away, but switching to EV is an absolute must.
  - fmobus 3y ago
    > EV adoption is an important goal for species survival Private transportation will always be unsustainable, regardless of power source. More ambitious goals are necessary.
    - matthewdgreen 3y ago
      EV transportation is a gateway to large-scale renewable energy storage, so even if you dislike private transportation this is actually pretty damn useful. On the other hand the (mostly Chinese) battery suppliers seem to have entered the fast part of the S-curve, so maybe Tesla isn't critical anymore -- except maybe to the competitiveness of the US in these areas.
      - fmobus 3y ago
        > if you dislike private transportation not a dislike, but a principled and objective position. Future investment in that modal should be zero.
- riku_iki 3y ago
  > the old people were indeed incompetent or were building job security, since there are troubles to replace them now
- afavour 3y ago
  If what you’re saying was true (which I doubt) the responsibility will still fall on Musk, both for having let the situation go on for as long as it did and for laying off all the workers with absolutely no contingency plan.
  - netsharc 3y ago
    Gotta love the Elon apologist trying to twist things so the almighty Elon is never wrong. At least he's probably convinced himself that Elon is still the GOAT.
- stubish 3y ago
  New people? Do you honestly think they have replaced an entire team in the few days since firing the last one? Only people in the building able to log into the project management system are likely Elon and the sysadmins.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Like I would read some Jira and get up to speed. Hit the road running. Even with the most competently run department it would take months to get a grasp on their projects.
Lammy 3y ago
Saved you a click ======================================== To all concerned: You may be aware that there has been a recent adjustment with the Supercharger organization which is presently undergoing a sudden and thorough restructuring. If you have already received this email, please disregard it as we are attempting to connect with our suppliers and contractors. As part of this process, we are in the midst of establishing new leadership roles, prioritizing projects, and streamlining our payment procedures. Due to the transitional nature of this phase, we are asking for your patience with our response time. I understand that this period of change may be challenging and that patience is not easy when expecting to be paid, however, I want to express my sincere appreciation for your understanding and support as we navigate through this transition. At this time, please hold on breaking ground on any newly awarded construction projects and planned pre-construction walks. If currently working on an active Supercharging construction site, please continue. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. Additionally, hold on working on any new material orders. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. If waiting on delayed payment, please contact [email redacted] for a status update. Thank you for your cooperation and patience.
riffic 3y ago
99.95% uptime of what specifically and what value is there in chasing more 9s?
- peutetre 3y ago
  Tesla's definition of a site being 100% up is at least half the plugs working on a given day. If 50% of the plugs are working then Tesla deems the site to be 100% up. So 99.95% uptime sounds better than it is.
- langsoul-com 3y ago
  Nobody wants to go to a charging site only to find they don't work. Same story for petrol stations. The only difference is petrol stations have been around for a very long time so already dealt with the reliability problem. Ev charging stations have room for adjustment.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
The email: >To all concerned: >You may be aware that there has been a recent adjustment with the Supercharger organization which is presently undergoing a sudden and thorough restructuring. If you have already received this email, please disregard it as we are attempting to connect with our suppliers and contractors. As part of this process, we are in the midst of establishing new leadership roles, prioritizing projects, and streamlining our payment procedures. Due to the transitional nature of this phase, we are asking for your patience with our response time. >I understand that this period of change may be challenging and that patience is not easy when expecting to be paid, however, I want to express my sincere appreciation for your understanding and support as we navigate through this transition. At this time, please hold on breaking ground on any newly awarded construction projects and planned pre-construction walks. If currently working on an active Supercharging construction site, please continue. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. Additionally, hold on working on any new material orders. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. If waiting on delayed payment, please contact [email redacted] for a status update. Thank you for your cooperation and patience. lol
rightbyte 3y ago
It seems like the fireing of the department was an extended punnishment of a manager that was not a 'team player'? Am I getting this right?
- monetus 3y ago
  Seems so. That it has left their agreements with other car companies in some peril seems to have been an insane move to take, imo.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    The move is so irrational that that admittedly gossip explaination makes perfect sense. It is like watching some cartoonish dictatorship cleaning ranks.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- threeseed 3y ago
  I think it was more a convenient excuse. Tesla looks to not be on a financially strong course and so they needed to make major cuts somewhere. Supercharger network is probably okay for now. Just a shame they continue to bet their company on Robotaxi for which there is no evidence will be a good business even if the technology works. They need to focus more on refreshing their existing models and overall better customer satisfaction.
  - whamlastxmas 3y ago
    There’s no evidence that ride services make money and are in high demand? Someone better tell Lyft and Uber so they can close shop
    - jantissler 3y ago
      Uber and Lyft are not in the robotaxi business. And yes, a lot of these gig companies barely make any money as it is. Most lose money. They basically just hope to be the last one standing and to then rack up prices to a profitable level.
steveBK123 3y ago
If this results in Tesla superchargers degrading to the level of the typical US charging network, EVs are in for some (more) pain. I have to imagine the order book looks bad and so he is panicking about next quarters financials with the drafting moves he is making.
- twoWhlsGud 2y ago
  And I can't imagine this isn't going to make the order book look worse. I'm currently cross shopping Tesla with other EV's and plug-in hybrids and this announcement has me pretty much dropping the idea of getting a Tesla. If the supercharger network stops growing and being properly maintained it's going to become just another overburdened unreliable system. At that point the model Y's idiosyncrasies (eg limited physical controls and no CarPlay) overwhelm the advantages that the charging network previously brought.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    Cross shop with the i4, Ioniq5/6, id4, MachE.. etc
bhouston 3y ago
Could it be that Elon didn't appreciate that the head of the Tesla supercharger division had gotten other car companies to adopt the Tesla charger standard? Basically helping other competitor car companies tap into the Tesla network?
- Gud 3y ago
  No, this was always the plan to let other car manufacturers use the superchargers
afavour 3y ago
I have to imagine another EV company will be very happy to hire the exec Musk fired along with the staff of their choosing. Or maybe the EV companies could all throw cash into an independent charging company? Either way this infrastructure is too important (and long term, too lucrative) for someone to not get involved.
- wakawaka28 3y ago
  The car industry is not doing amazing now, especially with EVs and hybrids that are unpopular and consumers tightening their belts.
jibe 3y ago
This suggests that Tesla doesn’t have an established method of contact for all of its suppliers This is the big first “remarkable” piece of evidence? This seems very typical.
- droopyEyelids 3y ago
  Any big company’s SAP/oracle/dynamics system should absolutely have a list of active suppliers and tge contacts at those suppliers
  - recursivegirth 3y ago
    We get audited for SOC2 and have to maintain a list of our vendors.
    - TheNewsIsHere 3y ago
      Right. Even if you aren’t in a regulated area (of any kind), if you have any sort of reasonably sophisticated accounting software you should _at least_ be able to produce a list of businesses with which you exchange money and go from there. A car manufacturer? How is that not an already built report on the ERP? Even if it is Tesla we’re talking about. My small business has three digits of records in the “Partners” table in our ERP and we can produce an Excel spreadsheet of all our vendors + contact info in less than two minutes.
  - TheAlchemist 3y ago
    From what I've read, Tesla has developed all of it's internal software - for CRM but ... also for accounting. And it seems that a lot of information is heavily restricted. It's a major red flag. Especially when the CEO may be one of the last senior people left having access to some material information, and said CEO is a drug addict with a very documented history of lying.
    - uejfiweun 3y ago
      Wow. You'd think that they'd cut these software teams that keep reinventing the wheel, rather than the supercharger team.
GianFabien 3y ago
The elephant in the room is whether Elon's recreational pharmaceuticals are affecting his decision making.
alexey-salmin 3y ago
Why on earth is this flagged?
- Sakos 3y ago
  I'm confused too. The article is fine.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  Likely $TSLA investors present in HN crowd.
- sumeno 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - whamlastxmas 3y ago
    It’s more likely discussion similar to this that people get tired of. And I include my own comment in that statement
- sniggers 3y ago
  [flagged]
- ailurooo 2y ago
  because hn mods refuse to give bad light to tesla and israel, perhaps to avoid a flame war, perhaps to support their own bottom line. idk i just have a rss feed turned on to ingest new posts before they get yanked, and have a hn account with the option to see shadow banned accounts turned on.. and that mostly deals with this..
lamontcg 2y ago
> We have heard from several sources who told us that the reason for these firings is because Rebecca Tinucci, former head of Tesla’s EV Charging division, resisted Musk’s demand to fire large portions of her team. A woman stood up to him, so he fired her and her entire team?

107 points by peutetre 3y ago

Sounds like the supercharger team didn't have a good project management system. Any large entity that doesn't know the contract status, percent complete, and vendor status for it's construction is wacked. Either the new people don't know where the info is stored, or the old people were indeed incompetent and needed to be fired.

hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
Or maybe if you fire EVERYBODY there’s no one to onboard new people, or even anybody left who has a login. Elon needs to go, EV adoption is an important goal for species survival, he’s actively damaging those goals now - even if he did help kick off the revolution he’s now more net negative than positive as a CEO.
- haileys 3y ago
  No. EV adoption is an important goal for the car industry's survival. If we're talking about the species' survival, I sure hope we can adopt a broader vision than taking a land-hungry and energy-intensive mode of transport, and changing nothing about it except for making it run on batteries.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    At this point I am not sure EVs are the best option in short to medium term. Outside of the US there is still a legitimate fear of range anxiety made worse by Musk's announcement. It seems to me that widespread deployment of hybrids where 95% of daily driving is done on batteries is a more workable approach.
    - haileys 3y ago
      Yes, a smarter mix of options is the way to go. Cars are a one-size-fits-all approach that can't hope to achieve what we need for a sustainable future. In Perth, Australia, two thirds of all car trips are for distances of less than 5 kilometers. Using cars for these trips is both irrational and a hopelessly profligate use of resources, regardless of how they're powered. 5 kilometers is the kind of distance where even pedal bicycles are competitive with cars in terms of trip time, especially once you factor in traffic. And e-bikes are only getting cheaper and more accessible too.
    - dgoldstein0 3y ago
      Inside the us there's also quite a bit of range anxiety. It's one of the larger adoption hold ups. That and price.
  - imperialdrive 3y ago
    Thank you for raising that, we need less cars! (More bicycles and related infrastructure would be nice) :D
    - hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
      Less cars is a worthy goal for some people in some places for some activities, and works in tandem with making the cars we do have better.
      - sumeno 3y ago
        83% of the US lives in urban areas and the US has the highest transport emissions in the world. "This doesn't work for literally everyone so let's do this other thing that isn't as good"
        hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - ta_1138 3y ago
      Bicycles win when the level of density is still relatively low. If we are serious about efficiency, bikes don't make that more sense. Sufficient density so that most activity can be done on foot, and the rest is mass transit.
  - financetechbro 3y ago
    Patiently waiting for a train revolution
    - hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
      California high speed is happening slowly but surely. I think by 2030 the Central Valley will have a real HS line, and while that leaves out SFB/LA, Central Valley is fastest growing population. Likewise the LA/Vegas line looks like a real money maker on paper.
  - hehdhdjehehegwv 3y ago
    Tell it to the large percentage of humanity who doesn’t live in a city; many of whom grow the food you eat, and ship it to your local shop in a truck. There is no one-shot solution, motorized vehicles are not going away, but switching to EV is an absolute must.
- fmobus 3y ago
  > EV adoption is an important goal for species survival Private transportation will always be unsustainable, regardless of power source. More ambitious goals are necessary.
  - matthewdgreen 3y ago
    EV transportation is a gateway to large-scale renewable energy storage, so even if you dislike private transportation this is actually pretty damn useful. On the other hand the (mostly Chinese) battery suppliers seem to have entered the fast part of the S-curve, so maybe Tesla isn't critical anymore -- except maybe to the competitiveness of the US in these areas.
    - fmobus 3y ago
      > if you dislike private transportation not a dislike, but a principled and objective position. Future investment in that modal should be zero.
riku_iki 3y ago
> the old people were indeed incompetent or were building job security, since there are troubles to replace them now
afavour 3y ago
If what you’re saying was true (which I doubt) the responsibility will still fall on Musk, both for having let the situation go on for as long as it did and for laying off all the workers with absolutely no contingency plan.
- netsharc 3y ago
  Gotta love the Elon apologist trying to twist things so the almighty Elon is never wrong. At least he's probably convinced himself that Elon is still the GOAT.
stubish 3y ago
New people? Do you honestly think they have replaced an entire team in the few days since firing the last one? Only people in the building able to log into the project management system are likely Elon and the sysadmins.
rightbyte 3y ago
Like I would read some Jira and get up to speed. Hit the road running. Even with the most competently run department it would take months to get a grasp on their projects.

Lammy 3y ago

Saved you a click ======================================== To all concerned: You may be aware that there has been a recent adjustment with the Supercharger organization which is presently undergoing a sudden and thorough restructuring. If you have already received this email, please disregard it as we are attempting to connect with our suppliers and contractors. As part of this process, we are in the midst of establishing new leadership roles, prioritizing projects, and streamlining our payment procedures. Due to the transitional nature of this phase, we are asking for your patience with our response time. I understand that this period of change may be challenging and that patience is not easy when expecting to be paid, however, I want to express my sincere appreciation for your understanding and support as we navigate through this transition. At this time, please hold on breaking ground on any newly awarded construction projects and planned pre-construction walks. If currently working on an active Supercharging construction site, please continue. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. Additionally, hold on working on any new material orders. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. If waiting on delayed payment, please contact [email redacted] for a status update. Thank you for your cooperation and patience.

riffic 3y ago

99.95% uptime of what specifically and what value is there in chasing more 9s?

peutetre 3y ago
Tesla's definition of a site being 100% up is at least half the plugs working on a given day. If 50% of the plugs are working then Tesla deems the site to be 100% up. So 99.95% uptime sounds better than it is.
langsoul-com 3y ago
Nobody wants to go to a charging site only to find they don't work. Same story for petrol stations. The only difference is petrol stations have been around for a very long time so already dealt with the reliability problem. Ev charging stations have room for adjustment.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago

The email: >To all concerned: >You may be aware that there has been a recent adjustment with the Supercharger organization which is presently undergoing a sudden and thorough restructuring. If you have already received this email, please disregard it as we are attempting to connect with our suppliers and contractors. As part of this process, we are in the midst of establishing new leadership roles, prioritizing projects, and streamlining our payment procedures. Due to the transitional nature of this phase, we are asking for your patience with our response time. >I understand that this period of change may be challenging and that patience is not easy when expecting to be paid, however, I want to express my sincere appreciation for your understanding and support as we navigate through this transition. At this time, please hold on breaking ground on any newly awarded construction projects and planned pre-construction walks. If currently working on an active Supercharging construction site, please continue. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. Additionally, hold on working on any new material orders. Contact [email redacted] for further questions, comments, and concerns. If waiting on delayed payment, please contact [email redacted] for a status update. Thank you for your cooperation and patience. lol

rightbyte 3y ago

It seems like the fireing of the department was an extended punnishment of a manager that was not a 'team player'? Am I getting this right?

monetus 3y ago
Seems so. That it has left their agreements with other car companies in some peril seems to have been an insane move to take, imo.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  The move is so irrational that that admittedly gossip explaination makes perfect sense. It is like watching some cartoonish dictatorship cleaning ranks.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
threeseed 3y ago
I think it was more a convenient excuse. Tesla looks to not be on a financially strong course and so they needed to make major cuts somewhere. Supercharger network is probably okay for now. Just a shame they continue to bet their company on Robotaxi for which there is no evidence will be a good business even if the technology works. They need to focus more on refreshing their existing models and overall better customer satisfaction.
- whamlastxmas 3y ago
  There’s no evidence that ride services make money and are in high demand? Someone better tell Lyft and Uber so they can close shop
  - jantissler 3y ago
    Uber and Lyft are not in the robotaxi business. And yes, a lot of these gig companies barely make any money as it is. Most lose money. They basically just hope to be the last one standing and to then rack up prices to a profitable level.

steveBK123 3y ago

If this results in Tesla superchargers degrading to the level of the typical US charging network, EVs are in for some (more) pain. I have to imagine the order book looks bad and so he is panicking about next quarters financials with the drafting moves he is making.

twoWhlsGud 2y ago
And I can't imagine this isn't going to make the order book look worse. I'm currently cross shopping Tesla with other EV's and plug-in hybrids and this announcement has me pretty much dropping the idea of getting a Tesla. If the supercharger network stops growing and being properly maintained it's going to become just another overburdened unreliable system. At that point the model Y's idiosyncrasies (eg limited physical controls and no CarPlay) overwhelm the advantages that the charging network previously brought.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  Cross shop with the i4, Ioniq5/6, id4, MachE.. etc

bhouston 3y ago

Could it be that Elon didn't appreciate that the head of the Tesla supercharger division had gotten other car companies to adopt the Tesla charger standard? Basically helping other competitor car companies tap into the Tesla network?

Gud 3y ago
No, this was always the plan to let other car manufacturers use the superchargers

afavour 3y ago

I have to imagine another EV company will be very happy to hire the exec Musk fired along with the staff of their choosing. Or maybe the EV companies could all throw cash into an independent charging company? Either way this infrastructure is too important (and long term, too lucrative) for someone to not get involved.

wakawaka28 3y ago
The car industry is not doing amazing now, especially with EVs and hybrids that are unpopular and consumers tightening their belts.

jibe 3y ago

This suggests that Tesla doesn’t have an established method of contact for all of its suppliers This is the big first “remarkable” piece of evidence? This seems very typical.

droopyEyelids 3y ago
Any big company’s SAP/oracle/dynamics system should absolutely have a list of active suppliers and tge contacts at those suppliers
- recursivegirth 3y ago
  We get audited for SOC2 and have to maintain a list of our vendors.
  - TheNewsIsHere 3y ago
    Right. Even if you aren’t in a regulated area (of any kind), if you have any sort of reasonably sophisticated accounting software you should _at least_ be able to produce a list of businesses with which you exchange money and go from there. A car manufacturer? How is that not an already built report on the ERP? Even if it is Tesla we’re talking about. My small business has three digits of records in the “Partners” table in our ERP and we can produce an Excel spreadsheet of all our vendors + contact info in less than two minutes.
- TheAlchemist 3y ago
  From what I've read, Tesla has developed all of it's internal software - for CRM but ... also for accounting. And it seems that a lot of information is heavily restricted. It's a major red flag. Especially when the CEO may be one of the last senior people left having access to some material information, and said CEO is a drug addict with a very documented history of lying.
  - uejfiweun 3y ago
    Wow. You'd think that they'd cut these software teams that keep reinventing the wheel, rather than the supercharger team.

GianFabien 3y ago

The elephant in the room is whether Elon's recreational pharmaceuticals are affecting his decision making.

alexey-salmin 3y ago

Why on earth is this flagged?

Sakos 3y ago
I'm confused too. The article is fine.
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
Likely $TSLA investors present in HN crowd.
sumeno 3y ago
[flagged]
- whamlastxmas 3y ago
  It’s more likely discussion similar to this that people get tired of. And I include my own comment in that statement
sniggers 3y ago
[flagged]
ailurooo 2y ago
because hn mods refuse to give bad light to tesla and israel, perhaps to avoid a flame war, perhaps to support their own bottom line. idk i just have a rss feed turned on to ingest new posts before they get yanked, and have a hn account with the option to see shadow banned accounts turned on.. and that mostly deals with this..

lamontcg 2y ago

> We have heard from several sources who told us that the reason for these firings is because Rebecca Tinucci, former head of Tesla’s EV Charging division, resisted Musk’s demand to fire large portions of her team. A woman stood up to him, so he fired her and her entire team?