4 ms·

> excess consumption (travel etc.) Could you explain what you mean by excess consumption?

code_biologist 2y ago
There are obvious charitable interpretations of OP's meaning, but you ask for effort without any yourself. Could you explain what you're unclear about? Could you explain if you ask for clarity at all, or because you have an underlying unexpressed disagreement? Is it about the definitional existence of "excess consumption" or is it the precise details you quibble with?
- sangnoir 2y ago
  A definition of Excessive consumption would be in order, because it suggests that there's a "right" level of consumption other than what the market settles on, gp did not quantify what counts as excessive, or why. This concept is new to me and warrants more than a single parenthetical example that raises more questions.
  - lazide 2y ago
    So high that it bankrupted a huge number of producers. What is so confusing?
    - sangnoir 2y ago
      On what basis can the bankruptcies be blamed solely/mostly on consumer behavior, versus the viability of many fracking companies being staked on an impermanently high oil prices? The oil industry is notorious for boom-and-bust cycles. Who's culpable for the bankruptcy of businesses that were only viable under a Zero Interest Rate regime? Should we blame consumer exuberance - or excessive consumption - for pushing up interest rates and causing bankruptcies?
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 2y ago
        The Fed dropped the ball by keeping rates low. Their choice to keep them artificially low created mountains of problems that we’re still suffering from.
        lazide 2y ago
        Notably at least partially due to political pressure from Trump - including threats to fire the chairman of the Fed - to avoid higher interest rates and even defaults on his and his families extensive real estate holdings. [https://apnews.com/article/2a21e92ed9129e91e713495c9ef50050 https://apnews.com/article/2a21e92ed9129e91e713495c9ef50050] [https://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/kushner-companies-spent-the-trump-years-dealing-with-declining-valuations-and-debt-renegotiations/story-f9GrWgVC3jK86pgiZiOKTM_amp.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/kushner-compani...]
        Red_Leaves_Flyy 2y ago
        In the Antithesis of a trump supporter but don’t make it seem like Obama couldn’t have done anything when he benefited from the low rate environment too.
        lazide 2y ago
        Did Obama threaten to fire the head of the Fed if he raised rates? Or say anything, actually? Because I don’t remember any of that. Because if he had, then he’d be easy to blame. If he hadn’t then it’s squarely on the fed isn’t it? Since Trump explicitly did take action, why should he not get blamed for his part in it?
      - lazide 2y ago
        What does that have to do with the original statement?
        sangnoir 2y ago
- roenxi 2y ago
  My dude, people are allowed not to know what phrases mean. It regularly happens to all of us. And it is normally unclear what someone means on HN; usually we're all stirring the tea-leaves from 1-2 paragraphs of text and there are a lot of misunderstandings. In this case I think he meant that government is taxing people who would avoid using oil and giving money to people who do use oil, distorting the market to use more oil than it would in a counterfactual world where policy was consumption-neutral. But given we're talking about government policy that is far from the only interpretation - in context he might mean a specific area, for example.

There are obvious charitable interpretations of OP's meaning, but you ask for effort without any yourself. Could you explain what you're unclear about? Could you explain if you ask for clarity at all, or because you have an underlying unexpressed disagreement? Is it about the definitional existence of "excess consumption" or is it the precise details you quibble with?

sangnoir 2y ago
A definition of Excessive consumption would be in order, because it suggests that there's a "right" level of consumption other than what the market settles on, gp did not quantify what counts as excessive, or why. This concept is new to me and warrants more than a single parenthetical example that raises more questions.
- lazide 2y ago
  So high that it bankrupted a huge number of producers. What is so confusing?
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    On what basis can the bankruptcies be blamed solely/mostly on consumer behavior, versus the viability of many fracking companies being staked on an impermanently high oil prices? The oil industry is notorious for boom-and-bust cycles. Who's culpable for the bankruptcy of businesses that were only viable under a Zero Interest Rate regime? Should we blame consumer exuberance - or excessive consumption - for pushing up interest rates and causing bankruptcies?
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 2y ago
      The Fed dropped the ball by keeping rates low. Their choice to keep them artificially low created mountains of problems that we’re still suffering from.
      - lazide 2y ago
        Notably at least partially due to political pressure from Trump - including threats to fire the chairman of the Fed - to avoid higher interest rates and even defaults on his and his families extensive real estate holdings. [https://apnews.com/article/2a21e92ed9129e91e713495c9ef50050 https://apnews.com/article/2a21e92ed9129e91e713495c9ef50050] [https://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/kushner-companies-spent-the-trump-years-dealing-with-declining-valuations-and-debt-renegotiations/story-f9GrWgVC3jK86pgiZiOKTM_amp.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/kushner-compani...]
        Red_Leaves_Flyy 2y ago
        In the Antithesis of a trump supporter but don’t make it seem like Obama couldn’t have done anything when he benefited from the low rate environment too.
        lazide 2y ago
        Did Obama threaten to fire the head of the Fed if he raised rates? Or say anything, actually? Because I don’t remember any of that. Because if he had, then he’d be easy to blame. If he hadn’t then it’s squarely on the fed isn’t it? Since Trump explicitly did take action, why should he not get blamed for his part in it?
    - lazide 2y ago
      What does that have to do with the original statement?
      - sangnoir 2y ago
roenxi 2y ago
My dude, people are allowed not to know what phrases mean. It regularly happens to all of us. And it is normally unclear what someone means on HN; usually we're all stirring the tea-leaves from 1-2 paragraphs of text and there are a lot of misunderstandings. In this case I think he meant that government is taxing people who would avoid using oil and giving money to people who do use oil, distorting the market to use more oil than it would in a counterfactual world where policy was consumption-neutral. But given we're talking about government policy that is far from the only interpretation - in context he might mean a specific area, for example.