3 ms·

Tough to say if I have a "glowing" history, but I do have experience a few big companies that I think looks good. One time, when I was applying to work for a n

Tough to say if I have a "glowing" history, but I do have experience a few big companies that I think looks good. One time, when I was applying to work for a newspaper [1] as a software engineer. The recruiter was pretty sure I'd get an interview so he actually fast tracked me to do some stupid personality quiz and compliance crap, which took about three hours. The next day, I get a call from the recruiter and he tells me that I was passed over because my resume "looked too much like a manager's resume, no hands on coding experience". Now, that is very bizarre, because I've never really been a manager. I was an adjunct professor for two semesters, but for the last 13 years I've been a pretty vanilla software engineer, and my resume pretty much exclusively tried to highlight my work with .NET and Java and Node.js and Kafka. In fact, people have told me that my resume was "too technical" and that I need to speak at higher levels and get out of the weeds. The recruiter was confused too for the same reason, and then I realized something: the hiring manager probably never actually read the resume. I believe that they already knew who they wanted to hire for the position, but for bureaucratic or legal reasons, they had to make it look like they were trying to find the "best person for the job", and put out feelers for people, and they were just kind of ambivalent about wasting my time. It really bothered me, but there's not much I can do about it. 2023 was probably the worst year of my life. I got laid off twice, and spent about six months applying to jobs. I never really got used to waking up to twenty rejections every morning so every day I would feel kind of depressed until I went to sleep. I hated the faux politeness that I display during Zoom interviews. I hated logging into LinkedIn every day, applying to 100 jobs. I hated messaging all my contacts to ask if they know anyone hiring. I hated feeling desperate. It was tough, and I don't wish it on anyone. I have a really decent job now and I consider myself very grateful and lucky to have it. It's a really tough market right now, and anyone who's stuck competing in it has my sympathies. [1] Not going to say the name but it's definitely one you've heard of and probably have read.

ryandrake 3y ago
> The recruiter was confused too for the same reason, and then I realized something: the hiring manager probably never actually read the resume. I believe that they already knew who they wanted to hire for the position My gut feeling is this happens all the time, more often than we can possibly imagine. They're just "seems" to be so much nepotism and hire-my-buddyism. But of course we can't prove it. When you get rejected for a reason there is no legal requirement that the reason makes sense, is true, or that they even tell you the reason. It just cannot be one of a few very specific enumerated reasons (which usually can't be proven anyway, so a pointless rule), and that's it.
- tombert 3y ago
  Yeah, and I'm not in a protected demographic [1], so rejections can be completely no-cause for me and there's not really anything I can do about it. It wouldn't have bothered me as much if I hadn't wasted my time with the idiotic personality test they made me take that took way too much time. If they weren't going to hire me, that's fine, I'm not entitled to a job from this company, but I think they should just be courteous and minimize how much time is wasted. When recruiters call me for a job I don't want, I try as soon as possible to say something like "I'm not interested, I don't really want to waste your time, so I'm going to hang up now". It might come off as rude, but at least I cannot be accused of leading anyone on. [1] I guess outside of maybe religion since I'm an atheist? That never really comes up during interview though, and I very much doubt that's ever been the reason I'm rejected.
  - Paul-Craft 3y ago
    > Yeah, and I'm not in a protected demographic [1], so rejections can be completely no-cause for me and there's not really anything I can do about it. I don't think you understand how "protected classes" work in employment law.
    - tombert 3y ago
      Probably not, but I looked at this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group). I guess what I was trying to say is that I'm not in a demographic that's historically been a victim of prejudice; I'm a 33 year old straight tall white dude born in the US that comes from a relatively affluent family without any kids who has never been a veteran. Obviously if someone explicitly didn't hire me because I'm white, that would be an obvious violation, but I don't really think that's ever happened to me. I think when I've been declined for jobs, it's for more direct reasons like "he's kind of an asshole" or "he doesn't seem smart enough".
temporarely 3y ago
In 3 decades in this disappointing field every single interaction with a recruiter has been an utter waste of time.
- tombert 3y ago
  I have said a lot of nasty things about recruiters in the past (I’ve accused their job of being creative was of hitting FWD in Outlook), and I generally do not like dealing with them, but I dunno, sometimes they’re helpful. On very rare occasions they will know if I am actually a good fit for a job because they’ll take the time to actually learn a bit about CS. Those recruiters I generally like.
  - temporarely 3y ago
    They serve no purpose. Now we also have besides these parasitical firms the shell 'job boards' that send the job seekers on n hops to finally get to an application form. These are truly worthy of scorn as they "earn" their living by wasting the time of those who are earnestly looking for means of livelihood.
    - tombert 3y ago
      I mean, companies must see some value in them (even if it's not true), else they wouldn't keep using them. I guess they see recruiters as a "filter" that they don't have to do then? I don't know. To be clear, I don't love recruiters. I even asked on HN awhile ago what recruiters actually do [1], because it doesn't appear like a lot, at least from an outside observer. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38285507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38285507

ryandrake 3y ago

> The recruiter was confused too for the same reason, and then I realized something: the hiring manager probably never actually read the resume. I believe that they already knew who they wanted to hire for the position My gut feeling is this happens all the time, more often than we can possibly imagine. They're just "seems" to be so much nepotism and hire-my-buddyism. But of course we can't prove it. When you get rejected for a reason there is no legal requirement that the reason makes sense, is true, or that they even tell you the reason. It just cannot be one of a few very specific enumerated reasons (which usually can't be proven anyway, so a pointless rule), and that's it.

tombert 3y ago
Yeah, and I'm not in a protected demographic [1], so rejections can be completely no-cause for me and there's not really anything I can do about it. It wouldn't have bothered me as much if I hadn't wasted my time with the idiotic personality test they made me take that took way too much time. If they weren't going to hire me, that's fine, I'm not entitled to a job from this company, but I think they should just be courteous and minimize how much time is wasted. When recruiters call me for a job I don't want, I try as soon as possible to say something like "I'm not interested, I don't really want to waste your time, so I'm going to hang up now". It might come off as rude, but at least I cannot be accused of leading anyone on. [1] I guess outside of maybe religion since I'm an atheist? That never really comes up during interview though, and I very much doubt that's ever been the reason I'm rejected.
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  > Yeah, and I'm not in a protected demographic [1], so rejections can be completely no-cause for me and there's not really anything I can do about it. I don't think you understand how "protected classes" work in employment law.
  - tombert 3y ago
    Probably not, but I looked at this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group). I guess what I was trying to say is that I'm not in a demographic that's historically been a victim of prejudice; I'm a 33 year old straight tall white dude born in the US that comes from a relatively affluent family without any kids who has never been a veteran. Obviously if someone explicitly didn't hire me because I'm white, that would be an obvious violation, but I don't really think that's ever happened to me. I think when I've been declined for jobs, it's for more direct reasons like "he's kind of an asshole" or "he doesn't seem smart enough".

temporarely 3y ago

In 3 decades in this disappointing field every single interaction with a recruiter has been an utter waste of time.

tombert 3y ago
I have said a lot of nasty things about recruiters in the past (I’ve accused their job of being creative was of hitting FWD in Outlook), and I generally do not like dealing with them, but I dunno, sometimes they’re helpful. On very rare occasions they will know if I am actually a good fit for a job because they’ll take the time to actually learn a bit about CS. Those recruiters I generally like.
- temporarely 3y ago
  They serve no purpose. Now we also have besides these parasitical firms the shell 'job boards' that send the job seekers on n hops to finally get to an application form. These are truly worthy of scorn as they "earn" their living by wasting the time of those who are earnestly looking for means of livelihood.
  - tombert 3y ago
    I mean, companies must see some value in them (even if it's not true), else they wouldn't keep using them. I guess they see recruiters as a "filter" that they don't have to do then? I don't know. To be clear, I don't love recruiters. I even asked on HN awhile ago what recruiters actually do [1], because it doesn't appear like a lot, at least from an outside observer. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38285507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38285507