4 ms·

My first EV was a Volt which had only ~30 miles of EV range before it switched to gas. I bought it because I was EV curious but worried about range and I got a

by pnw 2y ago

My first EV was a Volt which had only ~30 miles of EV range before it switched to gas. I bought it because I was EV curious but worried about range and I got a crazy cheap lease from GM. I drove it for three years and did a few short road trips. When I returned it, my total driving stats: 99% on electrons.

brnt 2y ago
Hybrids get a bad rep. It makes for such a difference: knowing that you don't need to worry about that 1%.
- karmajunkie 2y ago
  The argument against hybrids that's always resonated with me is that you get the maintenance costs of a gasoline engine with the upfront costs of a battery. I've owned a Leaf and found it relatively trouble-free but never a hybrid. Am I just buying into FUD there?
  - brnt 2y ago
    Prius are pretty well known for being cheap to drive for a long while no? Sure, they are always going to be more complex than a full electric but good gasoline cars are don't have any huge maintenance costs for a good long while.
  - tedd4u 2y ago
    It's easy to like plug-in hybrids (I do), but it does feel transitional. As you pointed out, you have the potential for higher maintenance costs, _plus_ during electric operation, you carry the weight of ICE, fuel, fancy transmission, etc. which makes electric operation less efficient. And vice versa, during ICE operation you have a big battery and motor to carry around, reducing fossil fuel efficiency. I guess you could add a boiler and coal hopper for tri-modal steam operation. One caveat is, depending on your workload, you might put only 25% of the time on the ICE per mile driven (since most short trips would be electric). I.e. if an ICE car runs the engine for 2,500 hours per 100,000 miles, a plug-in hybrid might only have run the engine 500-600 hours at 100k miles.
    - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      In the Voltec drivetrain when the ICE is running the whole battery system is complimentary to it, not a detriment. It is precisely what allows it to be efficient. It uses an Atkinson cycle ICE for higher efficiency, and then uses the electric motor to augment locomotion, and the battery as a "buffer" with regen, etc. I rarely use the ICE mode, most of my driving is within range, but when I do, it's very performant and efficient, and hard to tell you're switched to combustion if it wasn't for the noise. It still drives mostly like an EV. And honestly, the ICE itself isn't very heavy -- nothing compared to a battery -- and as I said elsewhere, maintenance hasn't been an issue in the 5 years I've had mine. Oil change every 2 years (or more if you use the ICE a lot... I don't), that's it. The heaviness argument is especially baffling to me. Carrying around a 60kWh battery pack that you only use for road trips is way heavier and less efficient. Most drivers are not using their whole battery pack in daily use, so it's just stupid expensive dead weight, much heavier than an ICE you use occasionally. I want an ICE-less future as much as the next person, but it kinda pisses me off how EV purists who actually knew very little about the Voltec drivetrain basically got that product killed off. Emissions on roads would be drastically reduced if vehicles were switched to that model (which is not a PHEV like the other junk hybrids, but more of a range-assisted EV) without the very high cost and weight of large battery packs. Very much a "best is the enemy of the good" situation. I'd like about 10kWh more in my Volt, and 6kW charging. Other than that, perfect car.
    - brnt 2y ago
      I used to think of it as transitional too, but 1% net use isn't really. That is a level that seems sustainable to me, perhaps even competitive after you subtract the production impact of an equivalent battery pack.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    I've had a Volt since 2018 and there's basically been almost no "maintenance" on the ICE. Just an oil change every two years. Maybe I'm due for a coolant flush or something, I dunno. It has 120,000km on it. The most maintenance on this car ever has just been the breaks, because like most EVs, they're prone to corroding because they don't get used as much due to regeneration. The "ICE is a maintenance problem" thing is honestly kind of a bogus argument borne out by people's hunches, rather than reality. Most reliable vehicle I've ever owned, and, yeah, I am about 95% electric only on it.
    - mark-r 2y ago
      That's interesting, I always assumed the brakes would be MORE reliable because there's essentially no wear on the brake pads.
      - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
        They're reliable, but they get rust corrosion from lack of use.
  - twobitshifter 2y ago
    Haven’t own an EV but I have done lots of research. For the BMW i3 which is another series hybrid with more range, it seems 60% of owners think the engine isn’t worth it, but the rest love having the engine. There is no in between. The original i3 had 80 mile range, the second generation 120, and the last 150. From what I saw in researching by the time the range was up to 150 the BEV only folks were loudest.
  - TheDudeMan 2y ago
    True, but they win despite that.
    - TheDudeMan 2y ago
      Plug-in hybrids, that is.

by pnw 2y ago

brnt 2y ago

Hybrids get a bad rep. It makes for such a difference: knowing that you don't need to worry about that 1%.

karmajunkie 2y ago
The argument against hybrids that's always resonated with me is that you get the maintenance costs of a gasoline engine with the upfront costs of a battery. I've owned a Leaf and found it relatively trouble-free but never a hybrid. Am I just buying into FUD there?
- brnt 2y ago
  Prius are pretty well known for being cheap to drive for a long while no? Sure, they are always going to be more complex than a full electric but good gasoline cars are don't have any huge maintenance costs for a good long while.
- tedd4u 2y ago
  It's easy to like plug-in hybrids (I do), but it does feel transitional. As you pointed out, you have the potential for higher maintenance costs, _plus_ during electric operation, you carry the weight of ICE, fuel, fancy transmission, etc. which makes electric operation less efficient. And vice versa, during ICE operation you have a big battery and motor to carry around, reducing fossil fuel efficiency. I guess you could add a boiler and coal hopper for tri-modal steam operation. One caveat is, depending on your workload, you might put only 25% of the time on the ICE per mile driven (since most short trips would be electric). I.e. if an ICE car runs the engine for 2,500 hours per 100,000 miles, a plug-in hybrid might only have run the engine 500-600 hours at 100k miles.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    In the Voltec drivetrain when the ICE is running the whole battery system is complimentary to it, not a detriment. It is precisely what allows it to be efficient. It uses an Atkinson cycle ICE for higher efficiency, and then uses the electric motor to augment locomotion, and the battery as a "buffer" with regen, etc. I rarely use the ICE mode, most of my driving is within range, but when I do, it's very performant and efficient, and hard to tell you're switched to combustion if it wasn't for the noise. It still drives mostly like an EV. And honestly, the ICE itself isn't very heavy -- nothing compared to a battery -- and as I said elsewhere, maintenance hasn't been an issue in the 5 years I've had mine. Oil change every 2 years (or more if you use the ICE a lot... I don't), that's it. The heaviness argument is especially baffling to me. Carrying around a 60kWh battery pack that you only use for road trips is way heavier and less efficient. Most drivers are not using their whole battery pack in daily use, so it's just stupid expensive dead weight, much heavier than an ICE you use occasionally. I want an ICE-less future as much as the next person, but it kinda pisses me off how EV purists who actually knew very little about the Voltec drivetrain basically got that product killed off. Emissions on roads would be drastically reduced if vehicles were switched to that model (which is not a PHEV like the other junk hybrids, but more of a range-assisted EV) without the very high cost and weight of large battery packs. Very much a "best is the enemy of the good" situation. I'd like about 10kWh more in my Volt, and 6kW charging. Other than that, perfect car.
  - brnt 2y ago
    I used to think of it as transitional too, but 1% net use isn't really. That is a level that seems sustainable to me, perhaps even competitive after you subtract the production impact of an equivalent battery pack.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  I've had a Volt since 2018 and there's basically been almost no "maintenance" on the ICE. Just an oil change every two years. Maybe I'm due for a coolant flush or something, I dunno. It has 120,000km on it. The most maintenance on this car ever has just been the breaks, because like most EVs, they're prone to corroding because they don't get used as much due to regeneration. The "ICE is a maintenance problem" thing is honestly kind of a bogus argument borne out by people's hunches, rather than reality. Most reliable vehicle I've ever owned, and, yeah, I am about 95% electric only on it.
  - mark-r 2y ago
    That's interesting, I always assumed the brakes would be MORE reliable because there's essentially no wear on the brake pads.
    - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      They're reliable, but they get rust corrosion from lack of use.
- twobitshifter 2y ago
  Haven’t own an EV but I have done lots of research. For the BMW i3 which is another series hybrid with more range, it seems 60% of owners think the engine isn’t worth it, but the rest love having the engine. There is no in between. The original i3 had 80 mile range, the second generation 120, and the last 150. From what I saw in researching by the time the range was up to 150 the BEV only folks were loudest.
- TheDudeMan 2y ago
  True, but they win despite that.
  - TheDudeMan 2y ago
    Plug-in hybrids, that is.