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This is a very creative re-imagining of reality. Israel has always respected ceasefires. The last time one was broken was in 2014 where Hamas killed Israeli sol

This is a very creative re-imagining of reality. Israel has always respected ceasefires. The last time one was broken was in 2014 where Hamas killed Israeli soldiers during a ceasefire. The US cut off Israel multiple times including in the 80s. If you go back further you can find a point in time where the UK and US had a plot to bomb Israel. How ceasefires work is through a promise of hostage releases. E.g. on the last ceasefire we had we were promised all the women and children. Hamas didn't deliver on all of them and frequently delayed release to test the patience of Israel. They are a suicidal, religious cult. > which I kind of doubt as most Hamas members have civilian family members victims of the ongoing genocide First, there's no genocide. Second. The head of Hamas posted a photo of him delivering the news of his sons death in the conflict to his wife. They were both smiling at the news in the photo. Hamas are not western people with western sensibilities and you should stop thinking of them in these terms. They consider every death that's a part of Jihad (including children, including direct family) to be a blessing. That's insane. They purposefully started this conflict and are purposefully extending it in order to manipulate American sentiment. They understand that the west is soft of heart, that it's easy to manipulate us.

runarberg 2y ago
I’m sorry keep returning to this, but seeing today’s headlines in Haaretz kind of proofs my point (or at least you should be able to understand my point of view from it): > Israel-Hamas Hostage Negotiations Hit Critical Juncture as Netanyahu's Statement Jeopardizes Progress https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/hostage-negotiations-hit-critical-juncture-as-netanyahus-statement-jeopardizes-progress/0000018f-4459-d0b5-a59f-75ddfad70000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... And: > Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... This is very similar to how the failed Qatar brokered ceasefire deal turned out in January/February [1]. It was also a temporary ceasefire with extension clauses, and all but ready to be signed and put into effect, meanwhile Netanyahu kept trying to vandalize it with statements of how Israel would not comply. And despite all that Hamas agreed to it, and it looked like it would come into effect, but at the last moment Israel withdrew and the genocide continued. It may be true that Hamas is a bad actor in these negotiations, and it may be that they bear a ton of fault for there not being a ceasefire already. But as today’s headlines prove, Israel’s responsibility is at least as much. 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663
- candiodari 2y ago
  Unless I totally misremember, Hamas sabotaged this deal. Not by threatening to not comply, but by actually not complying with the deal. The deal finally broke down when Hamas stopped being late with hostage releases, and actually canceled hostage releases. Netanyahu's threats were probably an attempt at rescuing the deal, that even worked for a while. Of course Israel is blamed for all of it.
  - runarberg 2y ago
    I was talking about the failed negotiations in January/February 2024, you are talking about the temporary ceasefire in November 2023. So not the same deal. You can actually read about it in the BBC source I cited. But lets talk about the 2023 temporary ceasefire. The deal never broke down, instead it expired. It was extended a couple of times, but negotiations to extend it a third time broke down. It did not end because of failure to comply. Neither Hamas nor Israel stopped releasing hostages all together until after the deal expired. I don’t know where you read that. The week long pause freed 105 of Hamas’ captives, while Israel freed 240 Palestinians. The deal called for the release of 50 hostages by Hamas and 150 imprisoned Palestinians by Israel. The extension called for 20 of Hamas’ hostages to be released and 60 more Palestinians to be freed by Israel. So in total Hamas promised to release 70 hostages but released 105 (35 more than promised; including 24 foreign nationals), while Israel promised to release 210 but actually released 240 (30 more then promised). Israel also promised to allow 200 trucks of aid into Gaza every day the truce stays in effect. I don’t have the number of trucks that actually entered, but I believe this was also met (though some truck drivers still complained about unnecessary and lengthy checks at the border). Before the ceasefire came into effect, both Biden, Sunak, and Scholz had voiced their opposition to the ceasefire. Several Israeli officials had also voiced oppositions to it. Hamas had supported it. Unlike in January though, Netanyahu did not oppose it, but rather stayed silent. During the ceasefire, Netanyahu wowed to continue the fighting and opposed any extensions to it. The USA on the other hand switch their stance and now supported extensions to it. On December 1, the truce ended. Hamas blamed Israel for not wanting to release more Palestinians, while the USA blamed Hamas for not wanting to give them a list with names of some of the captives. We will have to wait for some documents to be released before we know what really happened in Doha day. Hamas then lunched rocket attacks onto Israel. If you wanted to blame Hamas for anything here, those rocket attacks are a better target then some fabrication about not failure to meet demands of negotiations. Israel promptly resumed their attacks the same day, with 180 Palestinians martyred that day, including in Khan Younis, who’s residents where then forced to flee to Rafah, where most still live. On December 2, Netanyahu ordered the Israeli delegation to leave Qatar, which they did, and any prospects of further extensions were over. Since then Netanyahu has been staunchly opposed to any more ceasefire, and hostage negotiations, including the January prospects, and including the current prospects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceas...

runarberg 2y ago

I’m sorry keep returning to this, but seeing today’s headlines in Haaretz kind of proofs my point (or at least you should be able to understand my point of view from it): > Israel-Hamas Hostage Negotiations Hit Critical Juncture as Netanyahu's Statement Jeopardizes Progress https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/hostage-negotiations-hit-critical-juncture-as-netanyahus-statement-jeopardizes-progress/0000018f-4459-d0b5-a59f-75ddfad70000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... And: > Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... This is very similar to how the failed Qatar brokered ceasefire deal turned out in January/February [1]. It was also a temporary ceasefire with extension clauses, and all but ready to be signed and put into effect, meanwhile Netanyahu kept trying to vandalize it with statements of how Israel would not comply. And despite all that Hamas agreed to it, and it looked like it would come into effect, but at the last moment Israel withdrew and the genocide continued. It may be true that Hamas is a bad actor in these negotiations, and it may be that they bear a ton of fault for there not being a ceasefire already. But as today’s headlines prove, Israel’s responsibility is at least as much. 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663

candiodari 2y ago
Unless I totally misremember, Hamas sabotaged this deal. Not by threatening to not comply, but by actually not complying with the deal. The deal finally broke down when Hamas stopped being late with hostage releases, and actually canceled hostage releases. Netanyahu's threats were probably an attempt at rescuing the deal, that even worked for a while. Of course Israel is blamed for all of it.
- runarberg 2y ago
  I was talking about the failed negotiations in January/February 2024, you are talking about the temporary ceasefire in November 2023. So not the same deal. You can actually read about it in the BBC source I cited. But lets talk about the 2023 temporary ceasefire. The deal never broke down, instead it expired. It was extended a couple of times, but negotiations to extend it a third time broke down. It did not end because of failure to comply. Neither Hamas nor Israel stopped releasing hostages all together until after the deal expired. I don’t know where you read that. The week long pause freed 105 of Hamas’ captives, while Israel freed 240 Palestinians. The deal called for the release of 50 hostages by Hamas and 150 imprisoned Palestinians by Israel. The extension called for 20 of Hamas’ hostages to be released and 60 more Palestinians to be freed by Israel. So in total Hamas promised to release 70 hostages but released 105 (35 more than promised; including 24 foreign nationals), while Israel promised to release 210 but actually released 240 (30 more then promised). Israel also promised to allow 200 trucks of aid into Gaza every day the truce stays in effect. I don’t have the number of trucks that actually entered, but I believe this was also met (though some truck drivers still complained about unnecessary and lengthy checks at the border). Before the ceasefire came into effect, both Biden, Sunak, and Scholz had voiced their opposition to the ceasefire. Several Israeli officials had also voiced oppositions to it. Hamas had supported it. Unlike in January though, Netanyahu did not oppose it, but rather stayed silent. During the ceasefire, Netanyahu wowed to continue the fighting and opposed any extensions to it. The USA on the other hand switch their stance and now supported extensions to it. On December 1, the truce ended. Hamas blamed Israel for not wanting to release more Palestinians, while the USA blamed Hamas for not wanting to give them a list with names of some of the captives. We will have to wait for some documents to be released before we know what really happened in Doha day. Hamas then lunched rocket attacks onto Israel. If you wanted to blame Hamas for anything here, those rocket attacks are a better target then some fabrication about not failure to meet demands of negotiations. Israel promptly resumed their attacks the same day, with 180 Palestinians martyred that day, including in Khan Younis, who’s residents where then forced to flee to Rafah, where most still live. On December 2, Netanyahu ordered the Israeli delegation to leave Qatar, which they did, and any prospects of further extensions were over. Since then Netanyahu has been staunchly opposed to any more ceasefire, and hostage negotiations, including the January prospects, and including the current prospects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceas...