4 ms·

GrapheneOS does if you're willing to take the plunge.

metadat 2y ago
Take the plunge to not do any banking on your phone. It's an unfortunate limitation for a device I own to be handicapped this way.
- madmads 2y ago
  Not universally true, I use banking apps on my Pixel running the latest GrapheneOS. There is literally nothing I cannot do on my phone. I think it's possible that no US banks have apps that can be used as it seems a universal experience among Americans.
  - mkopec 2y ago
    Do Android Auto and VoLTE / VoWiFi work on Graphene these days? I also remember Google Maps and Uber being extremely problematic
    - sureglymop 2y ago
      I think they work if you install Google Play Services (as a sandboxed app). What doesn't work for me is contactless payments with Google Pay however Google Wallet itself works. But I think that is actually intended and for security reasons.
      - mbananasynergy 2y ago
        Google Wallet is usable on GrapheneOS, but Google artificially restricts contactless payment functionality to Google-certified OSes. It's not a real security check that they're doing, but rather just checking for certification, which is very unfortunate.
    - ajvpot 2y ago
      Uber, Google Maps, VoLTE, VoWiFi, and eSIM work. You may need to install the sandboxed Google Play Services from the Apps app. Android Auto is completely disabled as an opinionated security measure. Google Pay and some banking apps (ones that require Google's Play Integrity API) will not run. GrapheneOS doesn't attempt to spoof these APIs because they are moving towards cryptographic verification [0]. Most apps don't require this check but if they do you are out of luck unless you can get the app developers to trust GrapheneOS's keys. [0]: https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...
      - mbananasynergy 2y ago
        Note that Android Auto has been supported in GrapheneOS for a while: https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto
        fifteen1506 2y ago
        Ya kept wanting to try Android Auto but when they released I failed to find the toggle xD Nowadays it's the Google's Find My Tag network which will be unsupported.
    - mbananasynergy 2y ago
      Android Auto is supported on GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto VoLTE and VoWiFi are supported if your carrier supports it. Google Maps and Uber work fine, provided you install sandboxed Google Play.
- nickburns 2y ago
  there is (or at least can be) some risk tolerance within any so-called 'threat model.' but i absolutely take your point and agree with you. nary the case but i suppose if i absolutely needed to access any finances from my mobile device, it certainly wouldn't be from one of said institution's own mobile apps, but via web browser.
  - GTP 2y ago
    > i suppose if i absolutely needed to access any finances from my mobile device, it certainly wouldn't be from one of said institution's own mobile apps, but via web browser. I used to do home banking from my bank's website. Recently, they created a digital-only branch for customers who mostly do home banking and only rarely need to go in person to the bank. They asked their customers if they wanted to switch and offered services at the same or lower cost than before. I made the switch, but found out that unfortunately the new website lacks some functionalities that are only available from the mobile app. I guess they are assuming that most people would just use their phone anyway and didn't bother to reach feature parity between the website and the app, preferring the app.
    - nickburns 2y ago
      crazy. it's remarkable to me that lawyers actually do explicitly, if not expressly, account for these kinds of technical decisions, ultimately made in surreptitious fashion by the business, when drafting usage terms. i.e., you would've (or, a lawyer determind, should've) been able to find notice of this change somewhere buried in the new service terms. i at least have faith in that much. i hope you switched back, lol.
- segasaturn 2y ago
  Your bank doesn't have a mobile website?
  - djbusby 2y ago
    It does but have to use the app to deposit checks.
    - neilv 2y ago
      Go for a walk every day, and occasionally make your walk to an ATM? You can also contact your bank and tell them that you want to be able to deposit checks via the Web site. If enough people do this, and don't use the overly-proprietary app, the bank might listen.
      - lambdaxyzw 2y ago
        >Go for a walk every day, and occasionally make your walk to an ATM? There are workarounds, but it sounds annoying and a burden. What if the closest bank branch is an hour on foot away? Or the OP lives in a rural place and it's half an hour drive? I don't have this problem since my bank works with graphene, but I would reconsider using it if most applications I use refused to load.
    - NotPractical 2y ago
      Minor conveniences like this are not worth the complete erosion of privacy, in my opinion. Just go to the nearest ATM to deposit checks (who uses checks anymore, btw?) and use the site for everything else. Not everyone even has a smartphone, and out of those that do, many prefer banking on their laptop over their phone anyway, which incentivizes banks to create feature-rich websites. If the mobile site isn't any good, usually the "desktop site" isn't too difficult to navigate on mobile, if you need to.
      - nickburns 2y ago
        who uses checks anymore, btw? business organizations. the rest of your points are well said.
- MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
  My banking apps worked for me on GrapheneOS once I installed Google Play services.
- codedokode 2y ago
  Using banking apps on a phone is dangerous because if your phone gets hacked (and Linux kernel has extremely large attack surface), the attacker gets access to both the app's session and SMS codes that are used to confirm operations. People who use banking apps must be crazy or don't care about their money.
  - aborsy 2y ago
    Excluding phones, Linux desktop, and Windows which doesn’t have a better record in vulnerabilities, leaves out essentially MacOS!
    - bornfreddy 2y ago
      Actually OTP hardware devices are a proper solution to this, but banks are mostly deprecating them, unfortunately.
      - 1oooqooq 2y ago
        and why do you think that is? *ponderingfaceemoji banks and gov sites say it's because of security, but accept SMS. so we know what it's really about
        xcdzvyn 2y ago
        I don't. Deliberately exposing people to risk for fun?
        bornfreddy 2y ago
        I think I do. It costs money and people in general don't appreciate it. Also while "malware on phone stealing money" is technically possible, it doesn't happen (much?), and most people get scammed in easier and more effective ways (see crypto) instead. I still hate it, but can't do much about it.
    - codedokode 2y ago
- sureglymop 2y ago
  Can give one anecdote: I've been using Graphene for about a year and all banking apps work just fine. In fact, I've never had as little issues with any other custom rom. It's quite crazy just how good Graphene is.
  - fifteen1506 2y ago
    Not a custom ROM maker, though I did get lost trying to plan one for my old Xiaomi Mi A3 (laurel_sprout). Another guy did make a unofficial LOS for it though. Custom ROMs nowadays require you to be scouring Qualcomm out of tree source repositories (or firmware dumps of equivalent phones, I think, in the case of Mediatek). It's impossible to guarantee quality with this conditions. Even if you just want to have a pristine kernel tree of the original firmware you may find, if it was ever released, it was squashed on the wrong source commit (again, laurel_sprout, though a random Github angel fixed it). So Google's devices tend, thankfully, to have better sources. Additionally, GOS team is competent and, for now, sustained full-time by donations. Those three conditions are what allow GOS to be a very good ROM. Do note: it has its quirks, specially with the new trimestral code dumps by Google where half-baked features are on the source (though disabled by feature flags).
- codethief 2y ago
  I've used GrapheneOS for years and I'm doing banking on my phone just fine.
- CommitSyn 2y ago
  The only 'banking' app I've had not work on GrapheneOS is Cash App, but then I just go to the website and use the web UI.

Take the plunge to not do any banking on your phone. It's an unfortunate limitation for a device I own to be handicapped this way.

madmads 2y ago
Not universally true, I use banking apps on my Pixel running the latest GrapheneOS. There is literally nothing I cannot do on my phone. I think it's possible that no US banks have apps that can be used as it seems a universal experience among Americans.
- mkopec 2y ago
  Do Android Auto and VoLTE / VoWiFi work on Graphene these days? I also remember Google Maps and Uber being extremely problematic
  - sureglymop 2y ago
    I think they work if you install Google Play Services (as a sandboxed app). What doesn't work for me is contactless payments with Google Pay however Google Wallet itself works. But I think that is actually intended and for security reasons.
    - mbananasynergy 2y ago
      Google Wallet is usable on GrapheneOS, but Google artificially restricts contactless payment functionality to Google-certified OSes. It's not a real security check that they're doing, but rather just checking for certification, which is very unfortunate.
  - ajvpot 2y ago
    Uber, Google Maps, VoLTE, VoWiFi, and eSIM work. You may need to install the sandboxed Google Play Services from the Apps app. Android Auto is completely disabled as an opinionated security measure. Google Pay and some banking apps (ones that require Google's Play Integrity API) will not run. GrapheneOS doesn't attempt to spoof these APIs because they are moving towards cryptographic verification [0]. Most apps don't require this check but if they do you are out of luck unless you can get the app developers to trust GrapheneOS's keys. [0]: https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...
    - mbananasynergy 2y ago
      Note that Android Auto has been supported in GrapheneOS for a while: https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto
      - fifteen1506 2y ago
        Ya kept wanting to try Android Auto but when they released I failed to find the toggle xD Nowadays it's the Google's Find My Tag network which will be unsupported.
  - mbananasynergy 2y ago
    Android Auto is supported on GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto https://grapheneos.org/usage#android-auto VoLTE and VoWiFi are supported if your carrier supports it. Google Maps and Uber work fine, provided you install sandboxed Google Play.
nickburns 2y ago
there is (or at least can be) some risk tolerance within any so-called 'threat model.' but i absolutely take your point and agree with you. nary the case but i suppose if i absolutely needed to access any finances from my mobile device, it certainly wouldn't be from one of said institution's own mobile apps, but via web browser.
- GTP 2y ago
  > i suppose if i absolutely needed to access any finances from my mobile device, it certainly wouldn't be from one of said institution's own mobile apps, but via web browser. I used to do home banking from my bank's website. Recently, they created a digital-only branch for customers who mostly do home banking and only rarely need to go in person to the bank. They asked their customers if they wanted to switch and offered services at the same or lower cost than before. I made the switch, but found out that unfortunately the new website lacks some functionalities that are only available from the mobile app. I guess they are assuming that most people would just use their phone anyway and didn't bother to reach feature parity between the website and the app, preferring the app.
  - nickburns 2y ago
    crazy. it's remarkable to me that lawyers actually do explicitly, if not expressly, account for these kinds of technical decisions, ultimately made in surreptitious fashion by the business, when drafting usage terms. i.e., you would've (or, a lawyer determind, should've) been able to find notice of this change somewhere buried in the new service terms. i at least have faith in that much. i hope you switched back, lol.
segasaturn 2y ago
Your bank doesn't have a mobile website?
- djbusby 2y ago
  It does but have to use the app to deposit checks.
  - neilv 2y ago
    Go for a walk every day, and occasionally make your walk to an ATM? You can also contact your bank and tell them that you want to be able to deposit checks via the Web site. If enough people do this, and don't use the overly-proprietary app, the bank might listen.
    - lambdaxyzw 2y ago
      >Go for a walk every day, and occasionally make your walk to an ATM? There are workarounds, but it sounds annoying and a burden. What if the closest bank branch is an hour on foot away? Or the OP lives in a rural place and it's half an hour drive? I don't have this problem since my bank works with graphene, but I would reconsider using it if most applications I use refused to load.
  - NotPractical 2y ago
    Minor conveniences like this are not worth the complete erosion of privacy, in my opinion. Just go to the nearest ATM to deposit checks (who uses checks anymore, btw?) and use the site for everything else. Not everyone even has a smartphone, and out of those that do, many prefer banking on their laptop over their phone anyway, which incentivizes banks to create feature-rich websites. If the mobile site isn't any good, usually the "desktop site" isn't too difficult to navigate on mobile, if you need to.
    - nickburns 2y ago
      who uses checks anymore, btw? business organizations. the rest of your points are well said.
MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
My banking apps worked for me on GrapheneOS once I installed Google Play services.
codedokode 2y ago
Using banking apps on a phone is dangerous because if your phone gets hacked (and Linux kernel has extremely large attack surface), the attacker gets access to both the app's session and SMS codes that are used to confirm operations. People who use banking apps must be crazy or don't care about their money.
- aborsy 2y ago
  Excluding phones, Linux desktop, and Windows which doesn’t have a better record in vulnerabilities, leaves out essentially MacOS!
  - bornfreddy 2y ago
    Actually OTP hardware devices are a proper solution to this, but banks are mostly deprecating them, unfortunately.
    - 1oooqooq 2y ago
      and why do you think that is? *ponderingfaceemoji banks and gov sites say it's because of security, but accept SMS. so we know what it's really about
      - xcdzvyn 2y ago
        I don't. Deliberately exposing people to risk for fun?
        bornfreddy 2y ago
        I think I do. It costs money and people in general don't appreciate it. Also while "malware on phone stealing money" is technically possible, it doesn't happen (much?), and most people get scammed in easier and more effective ways (see crypto) instead. I still hate it, but can't do much about it.
  - codedokode 2y ago
sureglymop 2y ago
Can give one anecdote: I've been using Graphene for about a year and all banking apps work just fine. In fact, I've never had as little issues with any other custom rom. It's quite crazy just how good Graphene is.
- fifteen1506 2y ago
  Not a custom ROM maker, though I did get lost trying to plan one for my old Xiaomi Mi A3 (laurel_sprout). Another guy did make a unofficial LOS for it though. Custom ROMs nowadays require you to be scouring Qualcomm out of tree source repositories (or firmware dumps of equivalent phones, I think, in the case of Mediatek). It's impossible to guarantee quality with this conditions. Even if you just want to have a pristine kernel tree of the original firmware you may find, if it was ever released, it was squashed on the wrong source commit (again, laurel_sprout, though a random Github angel fixed it). So Google's devices tend, thankfully, to have better sources. Additionally, GOS team is competent and, for now, sustained full-time by donations. Those three conditions are what allow GOS to be a very good ROM. Do note: it has its quirks, specially with the new trimestral code dumps by Google where half-baked features are on the source (though disabled by feature flags).
codethief 2y ago
I've used GrapheneOS for years and I'm doing banking on my phone just fine.
CommitSyn 2y ago
The only 'banking' app I've had not work on GrapheneOS is Cash App, but then I just go to the website and use the web UI.