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Just getting through the day-to-day with kids who aren’t at least some minimal amount of obedient would be a living hell. We’re talking about tiny little peopl

Just getting through the day-to-day with kids who aren’t at least some minimal amount of obedient would be a living hell. We’re talking about tiny little people who are inclined to run in parking lots and cut up the curtains to make clothes. You really need them to at least not do that kind of stuff as much as they might like to.

lazide 3y ago
Yup, and IMO the old school ‘seen and not heard’ was a direct response to that need - because with the number of kids involved in any relatively healthy relationship, anything else would result in the parents going insane and being unable to cope with the world. Which would screw everyone. Even potentially making the kids orphans or the like. Notably, birth control is very ‘new’ by societal standards, and could account for many of these changes as well, as a physically healthy heterosexual couple can actually have normal levels of sexual interaction without generating 15 kids.
mapt 3y ago
No. In the olden days, you're not talking about a kid like that. You're talking about seven of them, often working with agricultural equipment. Odds that all seven survive to adulthood are low. Now it's just zero to three, and they have playpens and Playstations, and a nearly 100% survival rate. Their only major threat is automobile accidents. I don't know why we would expect parenting or childhood to remain the same along the demographic transition.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Automobile accidents. Household chemicals (too many household cleaners look too much like apple juice). Sticking things in electrical outlets. Listening to dares from other children. Childhood is safer than it was, but it's not safe. And it's really hard to teach kids about every danger before they run into them. I once screamed "stop" at my two-year-old daughter, when it was life or death. She stopped, without knowing why. Sometimes obedience really matters. On the other hand... my kids were playing outside with a hose on a hot day. They came inside for something - and brought the running hose inside with them. That kind of thing can drive you crazy - but it wasn't obedience, because it never crossed my mind to tell them not to do that, because why would anybody do that? So you have to not call something "obedience" when it's just childishness. Worry about obedience on the things that matter.

lazide 3y ago

Yup, and IMO the old school ‘seen and not heard’ was a direct response to that need - because with the number of kids involved in any relatively healthy relationship, anything else would result in the parents going insane and being unable to cope with the world. Which would screw everyone. Even potentially making the kids orphans or the like. Notably, birth control is very ‘new’ by societal standards, and could account for many of these changes as well, as a physically healthy heterosexual couple can actually have normal levels of sexual interaction without generating 15 kids.

mapt 3y ago

No. In the olden days, you're not talking about a kid like that. You're talking about seven of them, often working with agricultural equipment. Odds that all seven survive to adulthood are low. Now it's just zero to three, and they have playpens and Playstations, and a nearly 100% survival rate. Their only major threat is automobile accidents. I don't know why we would expect parenting or childhood to remain the same along the demographic transition.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Automobile accidents. Household chemicals (too many household cleaners look too much like apple juice). Sticking things in electrical outlets. Listening to dares from other children. Childhood is safer than it was, but it's not safe. And it's really hard to teach kids about every danger before they run into them. I once screamed "stop" at my two-year-old daughter, when it was life or death. She stopped, without knowing why. Sometimes obedience really matters. On the other hand... my kids were playing outside with a hose on a hot day. They came inside for something - and brought the running hose inside with them. That kind of thing can drive you crazy - but it wasn't obedience, because it never crossed my mind to tell them not to do that, because why would anybody do that? So you have to not call something "obedience" when it's just childishness. Worry about obedience on the things that matter.