5 ms·

As the post explains, the Reliable and Safe bit are really handled by the car, not the charger. This is a neat project, but it is also another example of an Ard

by brk 2y ago

As the post explains, the Reliable and Safe bit are really handled by the car, not the charger. This is a neat project, but it is also another example of an Arduino being a bit overkill for what is going on here.

1970-01-01 2y ago
Safety is the electrician's duty. Local electric codes, ampacity charts, properly doing load calculations, pulling permits, etc. will all fall on the electrician's shoulders.
- brk 2y ago
  Yes, but the "electrician" can also be an individual homeowner. I've done my own electrical work at times, including permitted and inspected work. One of my last projects was wiring a 50A 240A subpanel, on a dock, over saltwater. 105' of wire underground, appropriate GFCI's, etc. Not exactly a simple job, but all the requirements are clearly documented if you take the time to read through things. There is no reason a smart/competent person can't install an EV charger, or create an interface to the power delivery with appropriate components.
  - lnsru 2y ago
    The bad thing is that short sighted and mentally limited persons still think about themselves as brilliant geniuses. That’s why you have complex electrician’s certification with theoretical and practical parts in Germany to sort out these brilliant geniuses. Edit: my buddy is ex-googler. IQ is twice his weight. I wouldn’t trust him any electrical cable. He can work on ground breaking theories, but breaks everything what he touches with his hands.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
      Arguably, the idiots of this world done have far too much to nobble freedom in so many different fields. Those people cannot be helped and keep on creating problems no matter what, so why should you restrict the freedoms of those who are smart, capable and resourceful? Certain professionals should be licensed, because people need to know they are safe, but within your personal domain you should have a lot more freedom.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        > why should you restrict the freedoms of those who are smart, capable and resourceful? Because shit causes fires and burns my house down. That’s not to say it can’t be done safely, and if you’ve got the space to do it away from other people, such that the only person you hurt is yourself, then by all means I think you should be able to do your thing. But codes should come into play when it's being done in a garage attached to a home where the partner, kids, and dog live. if I blow myself up, that's totally on me. taking other people with me isn't okay.
GuB-42 2y ago
Also note that he installed a "RCBO", whuch stands for "Residual-current circuit breaker with overcurrent protection". It is a breaker that combines the overcurrent protection with what is called "GFCI" in the US. It offers pretty good protection on the mains side, it is also not that cheap, and a little bit overkill. As you said, the car side is dealt with by the car itself. There are some minor issues (read the YouTube comments, people on YouTube love to comment about safety, justified or not!) but overall quite reasonable from a safety perspective. This is a slow charger and that car is not that different from a regular appliance from the charger point of view.
cesarb 2y ago
> As the post explains, the Reliable and Safe bit are really handled by the car, not the charger. Not all of it; the whole point of having a controller on the wall box is that there's mains power in the cable only while it's plugged into a vehicle (and that this power is removed immediately if the cable is pulled out from the vehicle, which could help prevent arcing on the contacts if it happens while charging).
- fr0sty 2y ago
  My understanding of the system is that the plug is physically locked in the charge socket while the car is drawing current through the cable. Thus it is impossible for there to be arcing at disconnect.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    With the Type 2 cables(common in Europe) - yes, they lock in. Type 1 cables(common in US and few other places) they don't lock in place, you can remove it even when it's charging.
    - sokoloff 2y ago
      Sort of. There is a micro switch that breaks the proximity pilot signal when you press the button to release the latch. That ends up cutting the power to the main pins before you unplug the cable.
burnerthrow008 2y ago
> As the post explains, the Reliable and Safe bit are really handled by the car, not the charger. That is completely wrong. The EVSE is responsible for implementing a GFCI cutoff as well as an over-current cutoff. Those are both safety features. A failure in the car's insulation resulting in a short to the frame is a shock hazard. A shock hazard also exists if the charge cord insulation is damaged. A bug in the car's charger firmware that results in too much current draw is a fire hazard. Additionally, the EVSE must keep the contactor open unless the plug is attached to the car (sensed via the [edit: pilot, not proximity] pin). Again, a safety feature because the J1772 plug is large enough for a finger to accidentally contact the conductors. Yet another is that the EVSE informs the car of the maximum safe current via a PWM signal. Too much current = fire. The car can't help you with any of those safety aspects.

by brk 2y ago

1970-01-01 2y ago

Safety is the electrician's duty. Local electric codes, ampacity charts, properly doing load calculations, pulling permits, etc. will all fall on the electrician's shoulders.

brk 2y ago
Yes, but the "electrician" can also be an individual homeowner. I've done my own electrical work at times, including permitted and inspected work. One of my last projects was wiring a 50A 240A subpanel, on a dock, over saltwater. 105' of wire underground, appropriate GFCI's, etc. Not exactly a simple job, but all the requirements are clearly documented if you take the time to read through things. There is no reason a smart/competent person can't install an EV charger, or create an interface to the power delivery with appropriate components.
- lnsru 2y ago
  The bad thing is that short sighted and mentally limited persons still think about themselves as brilliant geniuses. That’s why you have complex electrician’s certification with theoretical and practical parts in Germany to sort out these brilliant geniuses. Edit: my buddy is ex-googler. IQ is twice his weight. I wouldn’t trust him any electrical cable. He can work on ground breaking theories, but breaks everything what he touches with his hands.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
    Arguably, the idiots of this world done have far too much to nobble freedom in so many different fields. Those people cannot be helped and keep on creating problems no matter what, so why should you restrict the freedoms of those who are smart, capable and resourceful? Certain professionals should be licensed, because people need to know they are safe, but within your personal domain you should have a lot more freedom.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      > why should you restrict the freedoms of those who are smart, capable and resourceful? Because shit causes fires and burns my house down. That’s not to say it can’t be done safely, and if you’ve got the space to do it away from other people, such that the only person you hurt is yourself, then by all means I think you should be able to do your thing. But codes should come into play when it's being done in a garage attached to a home where the partner, kids, and dog live. if I blow myself up, that's totally on me. taking other people with me isn't okay.

GuB-42 2y ago

Also note that he installed a "RCBO", whuch stands for "Residual-current circuit breaker with overcurrent protection". It is a breaker that combines the overcurrent protection with what is called "GFCI" in the US. It offers pretty good protection on the mains side, it is also not that cheap, and a little bit overkill. As you said, the car side is dealt with by the car itself. There are some minor issues (read the YouTube comments, people on YouTube love to comment about safety, justified or not!) but overall quite reasonable from a safety perspective. This is a slow charger and that car is not that different from a regular appliance from the charger point of view.

cesarb 2y ago

> As the post explains, the Reliable and Safe bit are really handled by the car, not the charger. Not all of it; the whole point of having a controller on the wall box is that there's mains power in the cable only while it's plugged into a vehicle (and that this power is removed immediately if the cable is pulled out from the vehicle, which could help prevent arcing on the contacts if it happens while charging).

fr0sty 2y ago
My understanding of the system is that the plug is physically locked in the charge socket while the car is drawing current through the cable. Thus it is impossible for there to be arcing at disconnect.
- gambiting 2y ago
  With the Type 2 cables(common in Europe) - yes, they lock in. Type 1 cables(common in US and few other places) they don't lock in place, you can remove it even when it's charging.
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    Sort of. There is a micro switch that breaks the proximity pilot signal when you press the button to release the latch. That ends up cutting the power to the main pins before you unplug the cable.

burnerthrow008 2y ago

> As the post explains, the Reliable and Safe bit are really handled by the car, not the charger. That is completely wrong. The EVSE is responsible for implementing a GFCI cutoff as well as an over-current cutoff. Those are both safety features. A failure in the car's insulation resulting in a short to the frame is a shock hazard. A shock hazard also exists if the charge cord insulation is damaged. A bug in the car's charger firmware that results in too much current draw is a fire hazard. Additionally, the EVSE must keep the contactor open unless the plug is attached to the car (sensed via the [edit: pilot, not proximity] pin). Again, a safety feature because the J1772 plug is large enough for a finger to accidentally contact the conductors. Yet another is that the EVSE informs the car of the maximum safe current via a PWM signal. Too much current = fire. The car can't help you with any of those safety aspects.