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Off topic but the thing that I find most interesting about New Zealand is that there were no humans at all there until the 1400's. It was an untouched bird par

Off topic but the thing that I find most interesting about New Zealand is that there were no humans at all there until the 1400's. It was an untouched bird paradise. Fascinating to think that only hundreds of years ago there was an entirely uninhabited country.

keepamovin 3y ago
Yeah, that is fascinating. good point. Is it impossible that there were humans there a loooong time before who then left/died out? Would be interesting too haha :)
- input_sh 3y ago
  No, because they'd leave some evidence behind. In general, it is agreed upon that Kupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupe) was the first one to discover it, shortly before Mount Tarawera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tarawera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tarawera) errupted in 1312 (give or take), and more permanent settlements appeared some (<10) years later. None of this is 100% confirmed of course, but it's a more straightforward origin story than most places.
- mkl 3y ago
  No, there would be evidence. It was really hard to get to, as it required a significant amount of seafaring technology and knowledge. Check out the dates on this map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples#/media/File:Chronological_dispersal_of_Austronesian_people_across_the_Pacific.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples#/media/Fi...
082349872349872 3y ago
There was rapid cultural evolution among the Māori as well; consider the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pā#Gunfighter_pā https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pā#Gunfighter_pā . I don't know if they came up with bastions independently or swiped them from the Empire, but, having been used to full and frank discussions among themselves, they certainly adjusted quickly to artillery. > The British used to think the bayonet was the most lethal of all hand to hand combat weapons, till they came across our warriors, who fought with the Taiaha. You think your fist is your weapon? When I have taught you, your mind will be. —??B
malux85 3y ago
Kiwi here - Here's something cool: My grandparents (both still alive but over 100) grandparents were among the first settlers here in NZ. Not the very first to land, a few decades after that, but early enough that they had to build a single room shelter out of clay and mud, and hunt in nature for food. Now, as I sit on the 20th floor in an air conditioned flat with gigabit ethernet, I overlook the city, and marvel about how quickly a country can be built up from nothing. One other thing that is interesting, my grandparents were farmers their whole lives and only recently retired, when they started farming they were still using horses, and now their farm has computer controlled, almost entirely automated combine harvestors, they themselves often tell us they cant believe the rate at which farming automation advanced - they manage an enormous farm - so big I dont know the boundaries - with less than 10 people because of all the automation. It's pretty impressive to a non-farmer like me.
- echelon_musk 3y ago
  My parents flew me to NZ as a 3 month old baby to show to my aunt. They would remark about how the airport was little more than a corrugated iron hut at the time. I love NZ deeply and when I visited again later in life parts of the islands gave me the feeling that it was still a frontier.
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    > They would remark about how the airport was little more than a corrugated iron hut at the time. It hasn’t got any better. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018928627/auckland-airport-processes-need-attention-helen-clark https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2...
    - malux85 2y ago
      I guess it's all about perspective. I was born kiwi and grew up here until I was 24, then. I spent 10 years travelling, I lived in Spain, France, UK, Germany, Austria, Turkey, Dubai, LA, each for 8months - 1 year, and visited all the countries surrounding each. I've seen a lot of east european poverty and watched covid induced unemployment convert entire districts of cities into violent crime pits. When I came back to NZ I found New Zealanders complaining about such trivial things quite sad. New Zealand isn't perfect, but here, in the great scheme of things, we have it good.
mkl 3y ago
> It was an untouched bird paradise. Not quite entirely birds, but no land mammals except tiny bats. Humans made their mark pretty quickly and destructively. As a New Zealander, this to me is one of the saddest pages on the internet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_species_extinct_in_the_Holocene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_species_ex...
- calderknight 2y ago
  a few million years ago there were land mammals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bathans_mammal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bathans_mammal
crowcroft 3y ago
As a New Zealander that travels a bit, even with modern technology I can say that it's bloody hard to get to and from NZ (read: it's close to nothing). Incredibly impressive that people were able to find NZ on boats. I can hardly navigate a few streets without GPS.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > Incredibly impressive that people were able to find NZ on boats. I can hardly navigate a few streets without GPS. Odds are you're terrible at speaking Lao, but do you find it impressive that other people can?
  - crowcroft 2y ago
    We all have our own gifts.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> Fascinating to think that only hundreds of years ago there was an entirely uninhabited country. There wasn't; there's no such thing as an uninhabited "country", since countries are political entities. There's lots of uninhabited land; the amount of uninhabited land in the United States alone will be many times the size of all of New Zealand.

keepamovin 3y ago

Yeah, that is fascinating. good point. Is it impossible that there were humans there a loooong time before who then left/died out? Would be interesting too haha :)

input_sh 3y ago
No, because they'd leave some evidence behind. In general, it is agreed upon that Kupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupe) was the first one to discover it, shortly before Mount Tarawera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tarawera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tarawera) errupted in 1312 (give or take), and more permanent settlements appeared some (<10) years later. None of this is 100% confirmed of course, but it's a more straightforward origin story than most places.
mkl 3y ago
No, there would be evidence. It was really hard to get to, as it required a significant amount of seafaring technology and knowledge. Check out the dates on this map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples#/media/File:Chronological_dispersal_of_Austronesian_people_across_the_Pacific.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_peoples#/media/Fi...

082349872349872 3y ago

There was rapid cultural evolution among the Māori as well; consider the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pā#Gunfighter_pā https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pā#Gunfighter_pā . I don't know if they came up with bastions independently or swiped them from the Empire, but, having been used to full and frank discussions among themselves, they certainly adjusted quickly to artillery. > The British used to think the bayonet was the most lethal of all hand to hand combat weapons, till they came across our warriors, who fought with the Taiaha. You think your fist is your weapon? When I have taught you, your mind will be. —??B

malux85 3y ago

Kiwi here - Here's something cool: My grandparents (both still alive but over 100) grandparents were among the first settlers here in NZ. Not the very first to land, a few decades after that, but early enough that they had to build a single room shelter out of clay and mud, and hunt in nature for food. Now, as I sit on the 20th floor in an air conditioned flat with gigabit ethernet, I overlook the city, and marvel about how quickly a country can be built up from nothing. One other thing that is interesting, my grandparents were farmers their whole lives and only recently retired, when they started farming they were still using horses, and now their farm has computer controlled, almost entirely automated combine harvestors, they themselves often tell us they cant believe the rate at which farming automation advanced - they manage an enormous farm - so big I dont know the boundaries - with less than 10 people because of all the automation. It's pretty impressive to a non-farmer like me.

echelon_musk 3y ago
My parents flew me to NZ as a 3 month old baby to show to my aunt. They would remark about how the airport was little more than a corrugated iron hut at the time. I love NZ deeply and when I visited again later in life parts of the islands gave me the feeling that it was still a frontier.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  > They would remark about how the airport was little more than a corrugated iron hut at the time. It hasn’t got any better. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018928627/auckland-airport-processes-need-attention-helen-clark https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2...
  - malux85 2y ago
    I guess it's all about perspective. I was born kiwi and grew up here until I was 24, then. I spent 10 years travelling, I lived in Spain, France, UK, Germany, Austria, Turkey, Dubai, LA, each for 8months - 1 year, and visited all the countries surrounding each. I've seen a lot of east european poverty and watched covid induced unemployment convert entire districts of cities into violent crime pits. When I came back to NZ I found New Zealanders complaining about such trivial things quite sad. New Zealand isn't perfect, but here, in the great scheme of things, we have it good.

mkl 3y ago

> It was an untouched bird paradise. Not quite entirely birds, but no land mammals except tiny bats. Humans made their mark pretty quickly and destructively. As a New Zealander, this to me is one of the saddest pages on the internet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_species_extinct_in_the_Holocene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_species_ex...

calderknight 2y ago
a few million years ago there were land mammals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bathans_mammal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bathans_mammal

crowcroft 3y ago

As a New Zealander that travels a bit, even with modern technology I can say that it's bloody hard to get to and from NZ (read: it's close to nothing). Incredibly impressive that people were able to find NZ on boats. I can hardly navigate a few streets without GPS.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> Incredibly impressive that people were able to find NZ on boats. I can hardly navigate a few streets without GPS. Odds are you're terrible at speaking Lao, but do you find it impressive that other people can?
- crowcroft 2y ago
  We all have our own gifts.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> Fascinating to think that only hundreds of years ago there was an entirely uninhabited country. There wasn't; there's no such thing as an uninhabited "country", since countries are political entities. There's lots of uninhabited land; the amount of uninhabited land in the United States alone will be many times the size of all of New Zealand.