4 ms·

Well, they are a reaction. Like crime is a reaction to poverty. Is it valid? Does it matter if it's valid? It's real. Isn't it more important?

zarathustreal 3y ago
Crime is a reaction to poverty? Source?
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7820585/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7820585/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/ https://digitalcommons.bryant.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=eeb#:~:text=The%20results%20indicate%20that%20there,to%20all%20types%20of%20crime.&text=Crime%20and%20poverty%20are%20prevalent,countries%20to%20reach%20their%20potential https://digitalcommons.bryant.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl.... Need more or this good enough?
  - zarathustreal 3y ago
    I’d love a source proving a causal relationship, but to answer your question strictly as asked I have to say “no, I don’t need more examples of studies examining correlations” mostly because there obviously isn’t a number that would satisfy the requirement of a proof for that assertion
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
      What do you think of this source? https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00XGJN.pdf https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00XGJN.pdf
      - zarathustreal 3y ago
        > However, analyses show that crime is not driven by poverty alone, but rather by inequality. Countries with high overall levels of poverty do not necessarily have higher levels of crime. It is places with high levels of income inequality that typically have the highest levels of crime. Another driver of crime is a breakdown in social norms and values which results in, and is worsened by, factors such as unemployment, incomplete education, a break down in family structures, limited opportunities and exclusion from the formal economy. So I’m gonna again say no this does not prove the assertion
Veraticus 3y ago
I’m not sure I understand the framing of violent extremists as victims actually. There are many reasons to make bad choices, but that doesn’t mean we have to respect those choices or take the results seriously. So too here.
- scotty79 3y ago
  I'm not sure if anybody is framing them as victims here. It's not wise to frame the rain as the oppressor because it falls on your head, either. They just exist because of reasons. I don't think anybody here thinks it's good that they exist. The GP just pointed out that "why?" is important question. Maybe the most important and it should be answered with research and intelectual honesty, instead of just "because evil exists".
  - Veraticus 3y ago
    If violent extremists have no choice about how they act, then you should accept that society too has no choice but to reject them. It's just the rain falling, right? If violent extremists do have a choice, then we can also choose our response to them. And pretty clearly that response should be to ignore their demands and treat them as having abdicated any say in our political system. Otherwise, you validate violent extremism, which creates more violent extremism. Which is bad, right? There were other choices here. They chose not to make them. It's no one's responsibility to decide other people's bad choices are noble or worthy.
    - scotty79 3y ago
      > If violent extremists have no choice about how they act, then you should accept that society too has no choice but to reject them. Of course, but wouldn't it be nice to have a comprehensive answer to "why?" so we can be free of them completely? Or at least find out why it's impossible if it really is. The choice should be creating environment in which they don't spawn.
      - Veraticus 3y ago

zarathustreal 3y ago

Crime is a reaction to poverty? Source?

Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7820585/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7820585/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7234816/ https://digitalcommons.bryant.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=eeb#:~:text=The%20results%20indicate%20that%20there,to%20all%20types%20of%20crime.&text=Crime%20and%20poverty%20are%20prevalent,countries%20to%20reach%20their%20potential https://digitalcommons.bryant.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl.... Need more or this good enough?
- zarathustreal 3y ago
  I’d love a source proving a causal relationship, but to answer your question strictly as asked I have to say “no, I don’t need more examples of studies examining correlations” mostly because there obviously isn’t a number that would satisfy the requirement of a proof for that assertion
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
    What do you think of this source? https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00XGJN.pdf https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00XGJN.pdf
    - zarathustreal 3y ago
      > However, analyses show that crime is not driven by poverty alone, but rather by inequality. Countries with high overall levels of poverty do not necessarily have higher levels of crime. It is places with high levels of income inequality that typically have the highest levels of crime. Another driver of crime is a breakdown in social norms and values which results in, and is worsened by, factors such as unemployment, incomplete education, a break down in family structures, limited opportunities and exclusion from the formal economy. So I’m gonna again say no this does not prove the assertion

Veraticus 3y ago

I’m not sure I understand the framing of violent extremists as victims actually. There are many reasons to make bad choices, but that doesn’t mean we have to respect those choices or take the results seriously. So too here.

scotty79 3y ago
I'm not sure if anybody is framing them as victims here. It's not wise to frame the rain as the oppressor because it falls on your head, either. They just exist because of reasons. I don't think anybody here thinks it's good that they exist. The GP just pointed out that "why?" is important question. Maybe the most important and it should be answered with research and intelectual honesty, instead of just "because evil exists".
- Veraticus 3y ago
  If violent extremists have no choice about how they act, then you should accept that society too has no choice but to reject them. It's just the rain falling, right? If violent extremists do have a choice, then we can also choose our response to them. And pretty clearly that response should be to ignore their demands and treat them as having abdicated any say in our political system. Otherwise, you validate violent extremism, which creates more violent extremism. Which is bad, right? There were other choices here. They chose not to make them. It's no one's responsibility to decide other people's bad choices are noble or worthy.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    > If violent extremists have no choice about how they act, then you should accept that society too has no choice but to reject them. Of course, but wouldn't it be nice to have a comprehensive answer to "why?" so we can be free of them completely? Or at least find out why it's impossible if it really is. The choice should be creating environment in which they don't spawn.
    - Veraticus 3y ago