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[2008] "Optimism, pessimism, fuck that; we're going to make it happen. As God is my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work." (http://www.wired.com/scie

by ak217 14y ago

[2008] "Optimism, pessimism, fuck that; we're going to make it happen. As God is my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work." (http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2008/08/musk_qa http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2008/08/musk_qa) Elon Musk doesn't seem like the easiest person to work with, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a more accomplished human.

morsch 14y ago
The enthusiasm shown for this accomplishment on Hacker News is borderline ridiculous. This comment seems particularly over the top to me. What does this even mean, how do you measure the attribute of "being accomplished" on a 1d scale across vastly different kinds of accomplishment? To me it seems obvious that some of the medical accomplishments of the past 100 years are easily and vastly more important than a private space launch, but I wouldn't normally compare those things in such a manner. I had to rewrite this paragraph multiple times because it feels so bizarre. I haven't even touched on the question whether and to what degree you can ascribe an accomplishment of a group of people to an individual, which makes the whole comparison even stranger and less meaningful. I mean, I guess some people here subscribe to the notion that space travel is imperative for human survival. In that case, you might argue that each step towards it is more valuable than anything else that does not immediately push towards human space travel. Human space travel will save humanity, your piddly vaccine only saves a couple of hundred million people. But that seems a bizarre argument to make (and maybe that's why one really makes it). Edit: -3 in one hour? Wow. For what it's worth, I made this comment in good faith.
- paulsutter 14y ago
  SpaceX is exciting because Elon is one of us. He's a silicon valley founder who put all his personal money on the line to change the world. Paraphrasing PG, he didn't forget his dreams and he's inspiring many of us to remember our own. SpaceX is just beginning. His launch costs are now as low as the Russians (the cheapest). The Falcon 9 heavy will cut that in half, and reusability is intended to cut it by 80% again (10x improvement is the next goal). Watch this animation to see reusability, it's awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IbxqsWLXsw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IbxqsWLXsw Elon has said he will consider the company to have failed if they dont get reusability to work. These cost improvements will make many things possible and change the world. And these too are just the beginning.
  - adriand 14y ago
    It's also exciting because it is potentially of cosmic significance. There may come a time when the entire universe is affected and altered by people, and this is an important step in the journey to attaining that level of science and technology. There are certainly medical steps along that journey and those will generate great excitement as well; for example, when a "cure" for aging is developed, I'm sure it will generate a great deal of enthusiasm on HN, if HN is still a going concern when that happens.
  - koide 14y ago
    That video gave me the creeps: "One hundred thousand dead after engine of spacex launcher fails." Do you have any clue about how they intend to solve this problem?
    - jamesaguilar 14y ago
      Where the hell are you getting this 100,000 people dead stuff? It's a rocket engine, not a nuclear weapon. What problem is it you're suggesting they need to solve?
      - koide 14y ago
        I was thinking about the launcher falling on a skyscraper for example. My number was off by an order of magnitude, sorry. The problem is: making sure the launcher lands where it has to or else falls on an unpopulated area. I expect this to be harder than with the free fall capsules, where you only have to calculate a trajectory and gravity does the rest.
        nknight 14y ago
        WTF?! I'd call that more like three orders of magnitude, and the world has been launching rockets and landing capsules since 1961. Nothing even remotely like what you are speaking of has ever come remotely close to happening. No one launches rockets over populated areas, nobody aims capsules for populated areas, the CIA spent the 1960s recovering CORONA satellite film canisters with such precision they captured them with planes in mid-air. Stop fear-mongering.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- tobtoh 14y ago
  I think if you are comparing 'accomplishments' based on 'lives saved', then your comment has a lot of validity. But to me, the reason the SpaceX success is so noteworthy is that that achievement isn't just new, but ground breaking on so many levels. * first time a private firm has created, launched and docked a space craft * done it on a budget several magnitudes less than ever done before * done it with a fraction of the staff than conventionally used * opened a new era in space development Whilst I'm being grossly unfair to medical researchers, at a simplistic level I see most new vaccines like the release of a new model of car - beneficial, but incremental development . Whereas I see the SpaceX achievement as something that broke all the conventional wisdom on how things could be done. And that's what makes it so special and worth celebrating a bit more than other accomplishments.
- mkr-hn 14y ago
  I expect HN to show the same level of enthusiasm when science finds a reliable cure for melanoma. This is the first artificial event in space so significant since the moon landings.
- starpilot 14y ago
  This isn't an efficient market of valuing accomplishments with enthusiasm coins. We could go all day with the "who deserves more enthusiasm/respect?" debate. The cancer researcher? The AIDS researcher? The clean water specialist? The billionare philanthropist, who paid for all of the above? Space travel captivates a lot of people on HN. That's just the nature of the community; it doesn't intend to debase the work of others.
- Arjuna 14y ago
  "The enthusiasm shown for this accomplishment on Hacker News is borderline ridiculous." Some thoughts: 1. We all want to live in a world where dreams become reality. I think a lot of us are passionate at this moment in time because we are seeing a dream unfold; not just Elon's, but for everyone that is working to make it a reality. 2. The majority of us are builders, and we are naturally going to be excited about a company that is building, particularly at this level. 3. (Speaking as an American, here)... in the U.S., I think there has been an under-current feeling for the last several years, that could perhaps be paraphrased as, "Where are we heading, as a nation?" I think it is easy for us to lose touch with the pulse of the nation when we are head-down in code at a start-up or elsewhere, but I think this feeling is real. So, this is perhaps at the root of at least some of this passion and excitement. It perhaps affirms, in some way to us, that the collective "We" are still builders. 4. The U.S. does not currently possess the capability of human spaceflight. We are at a point in history that is similar to the human spaceflight gap that existed between the Apollo program and the Space Shuttle program. The success of SpaceX and this mission is another incremental step toward resuming that mission capability. I think that something that speaks to this is symbolic: an American flag that flew on-board STS-1 was left on the ISS by the crew of STS-135. It is awaiting return to the U.S. by the next American crew that is launched from the U.S. 5. As has been noted already, Elon is one of us. He is a builder. I do not know all of the figures, but I do know that he has put at least $100M dollars of his own money into SpaceX [1]. I think we all understand that these types of efforts are the intense result of many people collaborating together across various organizations, different backgrounds, etc. However, the reality is that these types of efforts require serious vision and investment, and I think, again, to see a builder like Elon achieve this is extremely motivating. 6. Finally, there is something intrinsic inside of all of us that longs to explore; perhaps for many of us, space is the ultimate expression of that longing ("Space, the final frontier."), and we are over-flowing with enthusiasm, wonder and hope at this achievement. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNwg8FvfuuU#t=248 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNwg8FvfuuU#t=248
- ivankirigin 14y ago
  Your comment is unnecessarily negative and doesn't add much here. Are you really trying to gauge whether Musk is an accomplished person? Paypal, Tesla, and SpaceX are each the most successful companies to date in their respective markets. Everyone on this thread would think a vaccine that saves hundreds of millions of people is a good thing. Be reasonable
  - tcpekin 14y ago
    Your comment is true, they are the most successful companies to date in their respective markets. However, Tesla is the only company that makes a fully electric small sports car, besides the recent Fisker Karma which has yet to see widespread production. In addition, Tesla received about $450 million dollars worth of funding from the government, which radically enhanced Tesla's production capacity and perhaps makes them look more successful than they actually are. Furthermore, I doubt Tesla is more successful than the gasoline car it is trying to emulate, the Lotus. SpaceX is also the most successful company in it's market. However, it's a tiny market with only a few companies, and receive government contracts and funding as well. I understand that the funding is orders of magnitude less than the Shuttle, that government funding is almost essential in new ventures like this, but the company would not be as successful without this additional money. I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes, Musk is extremely accomplished. He has incredibly successful companies. However, the market for small electric sports car as well as ISS delivery system are both very small with few competitors, and would not exist without government funding.
    - Synthetase 14y ago
      You are seriously underestimating Musk's accomplishments. I take issue with your implicit stance that anything involving the government is intrinsically tainted but I will set that aside for now. The global launch market is well into the billions of dollars . SpaceX has booked over $4billion in revenue for the next 5 years. The majority of that money is __commercial__. They have the cheapest, sturdiest, most advanced technology in that sector. Furthermore, if they manage to lower the price point even further, they will open up a vast market. What happens when it is economically mine an asteroid or immigrate to Mars. They would make Pacific Union look like a tinker toy set. There is no question Tesla has the best electric cars on the market. Tesla is set to turn a profit next year. This is an market filled with incumbents and where no car company has been IPOed for many decades. They have a 30% margin product which sells out. If their government loan vanished overnight, they would __still__ be able to execute since they have money from licensing their technology to other car companies. Musk speaks of nothing less than pushing humanity forward toward. That kind of ambition will inevitably intersect with some portion of the public sphere.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  How much karma do you need in order to downvote something on HN? I'll be back when I've got that much.
  - unimpressive 14y ago
    500.
- srl 14y ago
  I too find the enthusiasm, displayed here and on reddit and everywhere in between, for this to be patently ridiculous, although not for the same reasons. I'm a great fan of space exploration, in all forms - observation, robotic, and human - but this docking is simply not a significant event. Not in space exploration terms, and not in the grander scheme of human activity. It is neither a scientific nor a societal accomplishment, it showcases neither innovation nor courage. It's just - something that happened. Something that happened roughly on a monthly basis until a few months ago. I don't care. I think a great deal of the enthusiasm stems from the fact that it's a private company doing this, and not a government. Well, I'm most emphatically not enthusiastic about that. In fact, it smells rather dystopian. Governments can, with care, be kept under control. However bad corruption gets, democratic governments will always be bound to the electorate. Corporations - no. I don't want space exploration to be led by a private company, and certainly not by a small group of insanely rich individuals. As much as I admire Elon Musk - and Jeff Bezos, and all the others trying to get us back into space - these people are not the ones who ought to be leading us. Part of my discomfort with this course of events is no doubt just my personal political views - I'm about as far left as you can go. But what's happening also reminds me of some of Heinlein's stories - when space exploration was fueled by money, human rights (especially the collective right of self determination) fell by the wayside. If the cost of going to space is the permanent privatization of exploration, I can't be enthusiastic about it.
  - koide 14y ago
    On the other hand, I can't wait for the next 15 years to pass by. Every day I feel more like I'm an extra in a science fiction novel: Private space exploration Brain controlled robots Free ivy-league education for all Single atom transistors and nanotech in general Bioengineering These are truly wonderful times to witness.
  - sasha-dv 14y ago
    It is neither a scientific nor a societal accomplishment, it showcases neither innovation nor courage. It's just - something that happened. While governments are cutting down their budgets for scientific research and basically accepting the status quo regarding the spaceflight, there's this guy from Africa doing something extraordinary and you see no innovation or courage? If you describe what happened today as "there was this thing that came close to some robotic arm or something, and then the arm slowly captured it, and ... that's about it.", then I agree with you - that is boring. But, that's not what happened today. Today we saw one guy's insane vision becoming reality. And if that is not something I don't know what is. And what's even more exciting about it is that this is just the beginning. Governments can, with care, be kept under control. However bad corruption gets, democratic governments will always be bound to the electorate. Corporations - no. Aren't corporations regulated by the laws made by the governments elected by the electorate?
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  Who saves lives? Doctors? Medical researches? People who feed the hungry? Consider something such as a weather satellite. What goes into such a system? What inventions and breakthroughs are responsible for its existence? Things like CCD imagers, micro-chips, and, yes, rockets. Are the inventors of such things savers of lives? Surely yes, because it is through weather satellites that we are able to track and monitor hurricanes, typhoons and other severe weather phenomena which historically have been great killers of lives. Today hurricanes do not hit land by surprise, we have enough time to warn people so that they can evacuate or hunker down. Over the years this has saved perhaps millions of lives. Are vulcanologists life savers? Sometimes they are. What about automobile manufacturers? Well, without automobiles it would take a lot longer for EMTs to get to people who are injured and a lot longer to get them to a hospital, so a lot more people would surely be dead without automobiles. If you were to see a construction worker digging up the road to work on the sewer would you think of that man as a life saver? He most surely is though because clean running water and sewer systems are some of the most effective methods of reducing the spread of disease. That man isn't just digging up the street he's helping to keep you free from cholera, as surely as any doctor or medical researcher would. Reality is a lot more complicated and intermeshed than a naive, simplistic interpretation would indicate. What figure from, say, the 17th century is most responsible for the greatest reduction in untimely deaths since then? Such a question is almost impossible to answer. But more than that, life is about more than merely living. This is the fallacy of Maslow's hierarchy at play here. The idea that an individual who is ill, hungry, in danger, or impoverished must necessarily forgo self-esteem, appreciation of art, romance, and intellectual pursuits. That is a backward and harmful way of approaching the world, whether on an individual level or on the scale of all humanity. Yes there are great problems in the world, we are ill as a people, we are hungry, we are not safe from violence and war. But should we shun poetry, music, and science for that? It is often through introspection and art that we can gain a better understanding of our fellow humans, that we can set aside hatred and bigotry. It is often through the pursuit of science and engineering that we find better ways to treat and prevent disease and to feed the hungry. So I would say that we can and should strive toward putting humans in orbit and on Mars and it is just as noble a thing to do as curing disease or feeding the hungry. Because it represents what humanity is all about, pushing frontiers, exploration, knowledge, adventure. It is those things which make life worth living and give greater potency to more direct efforts of saving lives (just as the existence of art, food, and music do). And they also give us new perspectives. The photograph of the Earth from the moon by the Apollo 8 astronauts has been enormously inspirational throughout history, for example. Perhaps along the way who knows what new technology will come about. And, of course, more than likely we will develop the technology to divert asteroids away from Earth (perhaps saving billions of lives) and also make Earth a multi-planetary species, which could save human civilization from utter annihilation at some point.
- adventureful 14y ago
  That's a very sad post. By that scale, Einstein's work was mostly lame, because hey, plenty of it is still theoretical. And he didn't cure polio did he? And Steve Jobs wasn't accomplished, because the iPhone is just a toy, right? It doesn't cure cancer. And the Wright Brothers. Well, I guess human flight could be subscribed to as being imperative to human survival. But really, humans were never meant to fly were they? They'd have wings otherwise, so how could flight be all that important? It's not like human flight cures AIDS or anything.
adriand 14y ago
What a great interview. I liked this part too: > Wired.com: Your whole mantra is "cheaper and more reliable." But so far you're zero for three, which is anything but cheap and reliable, and guys like GlobalSecurity.org's John Pike say the reason it has taken billions of dollars and tens of thousands of people to successfully launch rockets is physics, not some new design or economic model. > Musk: Guys like John Pike have existed since the dawn of time, and if you listen to people like that then things will never get better, never change. It's a false point of view. Yes, we need to put some rockets into orbit. But the first order of business is to get rid of design errors, which we're doing, and once those are eliminated then you're dealing with repeatability, and people should judge what we're doing from the point of view of all the design issues we've ironed out through these F1 test flights. It's truly inspiring to read something like this after the person has been vindicated. The amount of patience, perseverance and determination required to make this a successful venture is enormous, but add to that the ridicule and criticism of your peers and it must be extremely difficult.
- mturmon 14y ago
  The earliest days of orbital rocketry were filled with the same kind of spectacular failures, embarrassment of very gifted engineers, and perseverance.
6ren 14y ago
It's pretty amazing that the (possibly) most accomplished human did a reddit AMA: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/kpt9f/tesla_spacex_and_paypal_cofounder_elon_musk/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/kpt9f/tesla_spacex_and... His answer on motivation was striking to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8NkJpUei4#t=28m05s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8NkJpUei4#t=28m05s My drive to get it done is somewhat disconnected from hope, enthusiasm or anything else. I just... I... I actually don't care about hope or enthusiasm... motivation. I just give it all I've got irrespective of what the circumstances may be. [...] Yeah... You just keep going and get it done.

by ak217 14y ago

morsch 14y ago

The enthusiasm shown for this accomplishment on Hacker News is borderline ridiculous. This comment seems particularly over the top to me. What does this even mean, how do you measure the attribute of "being accomplished" on a 1d scale across vastly different kinds of accomplishment? To me it seems obvious that some of the medical accomplishments of the past 100 years are easily and vastly more important than a private space launch, but I wouldn't normally compare those things in such a manner. I had to rewrite this paragraph multiple times because it feels so bizarre. I haven't even touched on the question whether and to what degree you can ascribe an accomplishment of a group of people to an individual, which makes the whole comparison even stranger and less meaningful. I mean, I guess some people here subscribe to the notion that space travel is imperative for human survival. In that case, you might argue that each step towards it is more valuable than anything else that does not immediately push towards human space travel. Human space travel will save humanity, your piddly vaccine only saves a couple of hundred million people. But that seems a bizarre argument to make (and maybe that's why one really makes it). Edit: -3 in one hour? Wow. For what it's worth, I made this comment in good faith.

paulsutter 14y ago
SpaceX is exciting because Elon is one of us. He's a silicon valley founder who put all his personal money on the line to change the world. Paraphrasing PG, he didn't forget his dreams and he's inspiring many of us to remember our own. SpaceX is just beginning. His launch costs are now as low as the Russians (the cheapest). The Falcon 9 heavy will cut that in half, and reusability is intended to cut it by 80% again (10x improvement is the next goal). Watch this animation to see reusability, it's awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IbxqsWLXsw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IbxqsWLXsw Elon has said he will consider the company to have failed if they dont get reusability to work. These cost improvements will make many things possible and change the world. And these too are just the beginning.
- adriand 14y ago
  It's also exciting because it is potentially of cosmic significance. There may come a time when the entire universe is affected and altered by people, and this is an important step in the journey to attaining that level of science and technology. There are certainly medical steps along that journey and those will generate great excitement as well; for example, when a "cure" for aging is developed, I'm sure it will generate a great deal of enthusiasm on HN, if HN is still a going concern when that happens.
- koide 14y ago
  That video gave me the creeps: "One hundred thousand dead after engine of spacex launcher fails." Do you have any clue about how they intend to solve this problem?
  - jamesaguilar 14y ago
    Where the hell are you getting this 100,000 people dead stuff? It's a rocket engine, not a nuclear weapon. What problem is it you're suggesting they need to solve?
    - koide 14y ago
      I was thinking about the launcher falling on a skyscraper for example. My number was off by an order of magnitude, sorry. The problem is: making sure the launcher lands where it has to or else falls on an unpopulated area. I expect this to be harder than with the free fall capsules, where you only have to calculate a trajectory and gravity does the rest.
      - nknight 14y ago
        WTF?! I'd call that more like three orders of magnitude, and the world has been launching rockets and landing capsules since 1961. Nothing even remotely like what you are speaking of has ever come remotely close to happening. No one launches rockets over populated areas, nobody aims capsules for populated areas, the CIA spent the 1960s recovering CORONA satellite film canisters with such precision they captured them with planes in mid-air. Stop fear-mongering.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
tobtoh 14y ago
I think if you are comparing 'accomplishments' based on 'lives saved', then your comment has a lot of validity. But to me, the reason the SpaceX success is so noteworthy is that that achievement isn't just new, but ground breaking on so many levels. * first time a private firm has created, launched and docked a space craft * done it on a budget several magnitudes less than ever done before * done it with a fraction of the staff than conventionally used * opened a new era in space development Whilst I'm being grossly unfair to medical researchers, at a simplistic level I see most new vaccines like the release of a new model of car - beneficial, but incremental development . Whereas I see the SpaceX achievement as something that broke all the conventional wisdom on how things could be done. And that's what makes it so special and worth celebrating a bit more than other accomplishments.
mkr-hn 14y ago
I expect HN to show the same level of enthusiasm when science finds a reliable cure for melanoma. This is the first artificial event in space so significant since the moon landings.
starpilot 14y ago
This isn't an efficient market of valuing accomplishments with enthusiasm coins. We could go all day with the "who deserves more enthusiasm/respect?" debate. The cancer researcher? The AIDS researcher? The clean water specialist? The billionare philanthropist, who paid for all of the above? Space travel captivates a lot of people on HN. That's just the nature of the community; it doesn't intend to debase the work of others.
Arjuna 14y ago
"The enthusiasm shown for this accomplishment on Hacker News is borderline ridiculous." Some thoughts: 1. We all want to live in a world where dreams become reality. I think a lot of us are passionate at this moment in time because we are seeing a dream unfold; not just Elon's, but for everyone that is working to make it a reality. 2. The majority of us are builders, and we are naturally going to be excited about a company that is building, particularly at this level. 3. (Speaking as an American, here)... in the U.S., I think there has been an under-current feeling for the last several years, that could perhaps be paraphrased as, "Where are we heading, as a nation?" I think it is easy for us to lose touch with the pulse of the nation when we are head-down in code at a start-up or elsewhere, but I think this feeling is real. So, this is perhaps at the root of at least some of this passion and excitement. It perhaps affirms, in some way to us, that the collective "We" are still builders. 4. The U.S. does not currently possess the capability of human spaceflight. We are at a point in history that is similar to the human spaceflight gap that existed between the Apollo program and the Space Shuttle program. The success of SpaceX and this mission is another incremental step toward resuming that mission capability. I think that something that speaks to this is symbolic: an American flag that flew on-board STS-1 was left on the ISS by the crew of STS-135. It is awaiting return to the U.S. by the next American crew that is launched from the U.S. 5. As has been noted already, Elon is one of us. He is a builder. I do not know all of the figures, but I do know that he has put at least $100M dollars of his own money into SpaceX [1]. I think we all understand that these types of efforts are the intense result of many people collaborating together across various organizations, different backgrounds, etc. However, the reality is that these types of efforts require serious vision and investment, and I think, again, to see a builder like Elon achieve this is extremely motivating. 6. Finally, there is something intrinsic inside of all of us that longs to explore; perhaps for many of us, space is the ultimate expression of that longing ("Space, the final frontier."), and we are over-flowing with enthusiasm, wonder and hope at this achievement. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNwg8FvfuuU#t=248 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNwg8FvfuuU#t=248
ivankirigin 14y ago
Your comment is unnecessarily negative and doesn't add much here. Are you really trying to gauge whether Musk is an accomplished person? Paypal, Tesla, and SpaceX are each the most successful companies to date in their respective markets. Everyone on this thread would think a vaccine that saves hundreds of millions of people is a good thing. Be reasonable
- tcpekin 14y ago
  Your comment is true, they are the most successful companies to date in their respective markets. However, Tesla is the only company that makes a fully electric small sports car, besides the recent Fisker Karma which has yet to see widespread production. In addition, Tesla received about $450 million dollars worth of funding from the government, which radically enhanced Tesla's production capacity and perhaps makes them look more successful than they actually are. Furthermore, I doubt Tesla is more successful than the gasoline car it is trying to emulate, the Lotus. SpaceX is also the most successful company in it's market. However, it's a tiny market with only a few companies, and receive government contracts and funding as well. I understand that the funding is orders of magnitude less than the Shuttle, that government funding is almost essential in new ventures like this, but the company would not be as successful without this additional money. I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes, Musk is extremely accomplished. He has incredibly successful companies. However, the market for small electric sports car as well as ISS delivery system are both very small with few competitors, and would not exist without government funding.
  - Synthetase 14y ago
    You are seriously underestimating Musk's accomplishments. I take issue with your implicit stance that anything involving the government is intrinsically tainted but I will set that aside for now. The global launch market is well into the billions of dollars . SpaceX has booked over $4billion in revenue for the next 5 years. The majority of that money is __commercial__. They have the cheapest, sturdiest, most advanced technology in that sector. Furthermore, if they manage to lower the price point even further, they will open up a vast market. What happens when it is economically mine an asteroid or immigrate to Mars. They would make Pacific Union look like a tinker toy set. There is no question Tesla has the best electric cars on the market. Tesla is set to turn a profit next year. This is an market filled with incumbents and where no car company has been IPOed for many decades. They have a 30% margin product which sells out. If their government loan vanished overnight, they would __still__ be able to execute since they have money from licensing their technology to other car companies. Musk speaks of nothing less than pushing humanity forward toward. That kind of ambition will inevitably intersect with some portion of the public sphere.
CamperBob2 14y ago
How much karma do you need in order to downvote something on HN? I'll be back when I've got that much.
- unimpressive 14y ago
  500.
srl 14y ago
I too find the enthusiasm, displayed here and on reddit and everywhere in between, for this to be patently ridiculous, although not for the same reasons. I'm a great fan of space exploration, in all forms - observation, robotic, and human - but this docking is simply not a significant event. Not in space exploration terms, and not in the grander scheme of human activity. It is neither a scientific nor a societal accomplishment, it showcases neither innovation nor courage. It's just - something that happened. Something that happened roughly on a monthly basis until a few months ago. I don't care. I think a great deal of the enthusiasm stems from the fact that it's a private company doing this, and not a government. Well, I'm most emphatically not enthusiastic about that. In fact, it smells rather dystopian. Governments can, with care, be kept under control. However bad corruption gets, democratic governments will always be bound to the electorate. Corporations - no. I don't want space exploration to be led by a private company, and certainly not by a small group of insanely rich individuals. As much as I admire Elon Musk - and Jeff Bezos, and all the others trying to get us back into space - these people are not the ones who ought to be leading us. Part of my discomfort with this course of events is no doubt just my personal political views - I'm about as far left as you can go. But what's happening also reminds me of some of Heinlein's stories - when space exploration was fueled by money, human rights (especially the collective right of self determination) fell by the wayside. If the cost of going to space is the permanent privatization of exploration, I can't be enthusiastic about it.
- koide 14y ago
  On the other hand, I can't wait for the next 15 years to pass by. Every day I feel more like I'm an extra in a science fiction novel: Private space exploration Brain controlled robots Free ivy-league education for all Single atom transistors and nanotech in general Bioengineering These are truly wonderful times to witness.
- sasha-dv 14y ago
  It is neither a scientific nor a societal accomplishment, it showcases neither innovation nor courage. It's just - something that happened. While governments are cutting down their budgets for scientific research and basically accepting the status quo regarding the spaceflight, there's this guy from Africa doing something extraordinary and you see no innovation or courage? If you describe what happened today as "there was this thing that came close to some robotic arm or something, and then the arm slowly captured it, and ... that's about it.", then I agree with you - that is boring. But, that's not what happened today. Today we saw one guy's insane vision becoming reality. And if that is not something I don't know what is. And what's even more exciting about it is that this is just the beginning. Governments can, with care, be kept under control. However bad corruption gets, democratic governments will always be bound to the electorate. Corporations - no. Aren't corporations regulated by the laws made by the governments elected by the electorate?
InclinedPlane 14y ago
Who saves lives? Doctors? Medical researches? People who feed the hungry? Consider something such as a weather satellite. What goes into such a system? What inventions and breakthroughs are responsible for its existence? Things like CCD imagers, micro-chips, and, yes, rockets. Are the inventors of such things savers of lives? Surely yes, because it is through weather satellites that we are able to track and monitor hurricanes, typhoons and other severe weather phenomena which historically have been great killers of lives. Today hurricanes do not hit land by surprise, we have enough time to warn people so that they can evacuate or hunker down. Over the years this has saved perhaps millions of lives. Are vulcanologists life savers? Sometimes they are. What about automobile manufacturers? Well, without automobiles it would take a lot longer for EMTs to get to people who are injured and a lot longer to get them to a hospital, so a lot more people would surely be dead without automobiles. If you were to see a construction worker digging up the road to work on the sewer would you think of that man as a life saver? He most surely is though because clean running water and sewer systems are some of the most effective methods of reducing the spread of disease. That man isn't just digging up the street he's helping to keep you free from cholera, as surely as any doctor or medical researcher would. Reality is a lot more complicated and intermeshed than a naive, simplistic interpretation would indicate. What figure from, say, the 17th century is most responsible for the greatest reduction in untimely deaths since then? Such a question is almost impossible to answer. But more than that, life is about more than merely living. This is the fallacy of Maslow's hierarchy at play here. The idea that an individual who is ill, hungry, in danger, or impoverished must necessarily forgo self-esteem, appreciation of art, romance, and intellectual pursuits. That is a backward and harmful way of approaching the world, whether on an individual level or on the scale of all humanity. Yes there are great problems in the world, we are ill as a people, we are hungry, we are not safe from violence and war. But should we shun poetry, music, and science for that? It is often through introspection and art that we can gain a better understanding of our fellow humans, that we can set aside hatred and bigotry. It is often through the pursuit of science and engineering that we find better ways to treat and prevent disease and to feed the hungry. So I would say that we can and should strive toward putting humans in orbit and on Mars and it is just as noble a thing to do as curing disease or feeding the hungry. Because it represents what humanity is all about, pushing frontiers, exploration, knowledge, adventure. It is those things which make life worth living and give greater potency to more direct efforts of saving lives (just as the existence of art, food, and music do). And they also give us new perspectives. The photograph of the Earth from the moon by the Apollo 8 astronauts has been enormously inspirational throughout history, for example. Perhaps along the way who knows what new technology will come about. And, of course, more than likely we will develop the technology to divert asteroids away from Earth (perhaps saving billions of lives) and also make Earth a multi-planetary species, which could save human civilization from utter annihilation at some point.
adventureful 14y ago
That's a very sad post. By that scale, Einstein's work was mostly lame, because hey, plenty of it is still theoretical. And he didn't cure polio did he? And Steve Jobs wasn't accomplished, because the iPhone is just a toy, right? It doesn't cure cancer. And the Wright Brothers. Well, I guess human flight could be subscribed to as being imperative to human survival. But really, humans were never meant to fly were they? They'd have wings otherwise, so how could flight be all that important? It's not like human flight cures AIDS or anything.

adriand 14y ago

What a great interview. I liked this part too: > Wired.com: Your whole mantra is "cheaper and more reliable." But so far you're zero for three, which is anything but cheap and reliable, and guys like GlobalSecurity.org's John Pike say the reason it has taken billions of dollars and tens of thousands of people to successfully launch rockets is physics, not some new design or economic model. > Musk: Guys like John Pike have existed since the dawn of time, and if you listen to people like that then things will never get better, never change. It's a false point of view. Yes, we need to put some rockets into orbit. But the first order of business is to get rid of design errors, which we're doing, and once those are eliminated then you're dealing with repeatability, and people should judge what we're doing from the point of view of all the design issues we've ironed out through these F1 test flights. It's truly inspiring to read something like this after the person has been vindicated. The amount of patience, perseverance and determination required to make this a successful venture is enormous, but add to that the ridicule and criticism of your peers and it must be extremely difficult.

mturmon 14y ago
The earliest days of orbital rocketry were filled with the same kind of spectacular failures, embarrassment of very gifted engineers, and perseverance.

6ren 14y ago

It's pretty amazing that the (possibly) most accomplished human did a reddit AMA: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/kpt9f/tesla_spacex_and_paypal_cofounder_elon_musk/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/kpt9f/tesla_spacex_and... His answer on motivation was striking to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8NkJpUei4#t=28m05s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K8NkJpUei4#t=28m05s My drive to get it done is somewhat disconnected from hope, enthusiasm or anything else. I just... I... I actually don't care about hope or enthusiasm... motivation. I just give it all I've got irrespective of what the circumstances may be. [...] Yeah... You just keep going and get it done.