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The US having a dedicated intelligence agency for maps seems to defeat most of the military value of this system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Geospat

The US having a dedicated intelligence agency for maps seems to defeat most of the military value of this system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Geospatial-Intelligence_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Geospatial-Intelligen...

deanresin 2y ago
Pretty insane for the writer or even China/Russia to believe the US, with all of its resources, wouldn't be able to make their own accurate maps.
- Laremere 2y ago
  Russia had accurate maps of the UK back in the cold war, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqzwsM6eoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqzwsM6eoQ
  - SeanLuke 2y ago
    Not just accurate: far and away the most accurate.
    - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
      It’s nice that USSR dedicated more money to this than UK government did
      - qingcharles 2y ago
        Are the USSR ones technically copyright-free? Because the UK ones are Crown Copyright IIRC and can't be used by the public without fees.
- _xnmw 2y ago
  Pretty insane for you to believe that a foreign country from afar could produce mapping data with the same degree of accuracy, detail and realtime freshness as a local provider on the ground. Of course there's military value in protecting mapping data from foreign adversaries, at the very least it adds a a time delay and some uncertainty to the data. It also probably makes it harder for some unsophisticated terrorist to strap a consumer GPS to a stock drone and accurately hit a target.
  - standing_user 2y ago
    define "afar" given the level of resolution of the US spying satellites
  - mopsi 2y ago
    There's no need to speculate. Even with 1960s tech and no physical access, the US military somehow managed to produce really good maps of the USSR, superior to those that were available to the public. So ironically, the intentional inaccuracy of USSR-made maps affected domestic users the most. In 2024, with satellites producing imagery in ~10 cm resolution, the most important factor determining the quality of maps is probably the amount of money available for analyzing satellite imagery into maps, and you definitely can't hide militarily important features like roads, railways, bridges and buildings.
    - planede 2y ago
      The images might have ~10cm resolution, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there can't be larger scale systematic offsets and other distortions for larger tiles. I recently learned that satellite images are often corrected to match known maps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVemGumEEgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVemGumEEgo
    - _xnmw 2y ago
      Sure, but there's a limited amount of information available from a satellite image. It's hard to tell what's going on inside a building, for example.
      - zambal 2y ago
        The subject is the ability to make accurate up to date maps out of satellite imaginary. I fail to see how this is a counter argument against that.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - dumpsterdiver 2y ago
- phkahler 2y ago
  >> Pretty insane for the writer or even China/Russia to believe the US, with all of its resources, wouldn't be able to make their own accurate maps. Pretty weird to think the US is the only country they might be worried about. Maybe not right now, but in general.
- kube-system 2y ago
  Do they?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
SeanLuke 2y ago
The US also has a dedicated non-intelligence agency for maps as well, and they are famous for making extremely good ones. https://www.usgs.gov/products/maps https://www.usgs.gov/products/maps

deanresin 2y ago

Pretty insane for the writer or even China/Russia to believe the US, with all of its resources, wouldn't be able to make their own accurate maps.

Laremere 2y ago
Russia had accurate maps of the UK back in the cold war, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqzwsM6eoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqzwsM6eoQ
- SeanLuke 2y ago
  Not just accurate: far and away the most accurate.
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
    It’s nice that USSR dedicated more money to this than UK government did
    - qingcharles 2y ago
      Are the USSR ones technically copyright-free? Because the UK ones are Crown Copyright IIRC and can't be used by the public without fees.
_xnmw 2y ago
Pretty insane for you to believe that a foreign country from afar could produce mapping data with the same degree of accuracy, detail and realtime freshness as a local provider on the ground. Of course there's military value in protecting mapping data from foreign adversaries, at the very least it adds a a time delay and some uncertainty to the data. It also probably makes it harder for some unsophisticated terrorist to strap a consumer GPS to a stock drone and accurately hit a target.
- standing_user 2y ago
  define "afar" given the level of resolution of the US spying satellites
- mopsi 2y ago
  There's no need to speculate. Even with 1960s tech and no physical access, the US military somehow managed to produce really good maps of the USSR, superior to those that were available to the public. So ironically, the intentional inaccuracy of USSR-made maps affected domestic users the most. In 2024, with satellites producing imagery in ~10 cm resolution, the most important factor determining the quality of maps is probably the amount of money available for analyzing satellite imagery into maps, and you definitely can't hide militarily important features like roads, railways, bridges and buildings.
  - planede 2y ago
    The images might have ~10cm resolution, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there can't be larger scale systematic offsets and other distortions for larger tiles. I recently learned that satellite images are often corrected to match known maps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVemGumEEgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVemGumEEgo
  - _xnmw 2y ago
    Sure, but there's a limited amount of information available from a satellite image. It's hard to tell what's going on inside a building, for example.
    - zambal 2y ago
      The subject is the ability to make accurate up to date maps out of satellite imaginary. I fail to see how this is a counter argument against that.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - dumpsterdiver 2y ago
phkahler 2y ago
>> Pretty insane for the writer or even China/Russia to believe the US, with all of its resources, wouldn't be able to make their own accurate maps. Pretty weird to think the US is the only country they might be worried about. Maybe not right now, but in general.
kube-system 2y ago
Do they?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

SeanLuke 2y ago

The US also has a dedicated non-intelligence agency for maps as well, and they are famous for making extremely good ones. https://www.usgs.gov/products/maps https://www.usgs.gov/products/maps