4 ms·

You are missing the forest for the trees and misunderstanding what I'm trying to convey. Even if we shifted to 1hr trading a day, we would still have market ma

by zie 2y ago

You are missing the forest for the trees and misunderstanding what I'm trying to convey. Even if we shifted to 1hr trading a day, we would still have market makers, but they would charge a lot more and a lot less people would use them. They would become more like pawnbrokers or middle-men, not be considered a must-have, like they are considered now. Much like your market makers of old. For institutional investors, most all of their trading is already done either right at market open or right before market close, so it wouldn't be much of a shift for anyone except for retail investors. I never said JP Morgan was a great guy. I basically agree with your characterization of JP Morgan. That said, he totally saved the NYSE and the larger American economy a few times anyway. You are partially there in your understanding of the bond markets. There are public bond markets(NYSE, NASDAQ as examples) in the US, but they act very different from the stock markets, and they don't represent most of the actual bond market that is traded every day. The NYSE bond market still does public auctions of bonds for example. There are MANY private bond markets. They don't regularly/always intersect. Bond markets as they exist today are still very new, and still not well understood. Pimco basically created the first ever regular bond market only a few decades ago. Before that pretty much all bonds just got stuck in some insurance companies filing cabinet never to see the light of day until it was time to collect a coupon. Even now a large portion of the bond market does effectively the same thing, except it's a digital file these days instead of a filing cabinet. If I show up @ Brokerage A with 5M and want to trade bonds, they will for sure let me talk to their actual bond desk, but that doesn't mean they can facilitate my trade. I may have to shop around a few different bond desks to get my trade done. It obviously depends on how big that bond desk is and if they have any expertise in the particular bond I want to trade. For stocks, if I show up with 5M and want to trade a stock, any brokerage anywhere well let me buy the stock. TRACE, the system FINRA uses to monitor and manage the US OTC bond market doesn't even track all bond trades. Though they do track most of them now, however. Certainly the bond markets are slowly becoming more public, but they are nowhere near public yet.

alchemist1e9 2y ago
Corporate and government bonds have many venues and have for decades and in my opinion they are public in the sense that any qualifying participant can get access to them. Can an individual with a $10k in a 401k, no, but US treasury cash bonds have had published prints and quotes since 1970s. I personally remember corporates and converts prices and trades on my early Bloomberg terminal. Now perhaps you call them private because they were and still mostly are for institutional traders however they are published prices and/or RFQ systems or there are continuously published two sided quotes. Yes big trades happened on phones and Jane Street is still involved in it. When I think of a private market it means a market where prices and transactions are not published. So our terminology is different. Fundamentally we disagree on the role of dealers and market makers. In my personal extensive market experience they are foundational and always have been. They carry inventory and manage risk. This has happened literally for 1000s of years and even in early NYSE and in the earlier stock markets in London and Amsterdam they were the key players in the price discovery process. What you claim, that markets can even function with time restrictions and without two sided quoted dealers/makers in my world is absurd. I have nothing more to say. I don’t believe you have real world extensive market knowledge and if you do, you must he significantly younger than me. Goodnight.

by zie 2y ago

alchemist1e9 2y ago

Corporate and government bonds have many venues and have for decades and in my opinion they are public in the sense that any qualifying participant can get access to them. Can an individual with a $10k in a 401k, no, but US treasury cash bonds have had published prints and quotes since 1970s. I personally remember corporates and converts prices and trades on my early Bloomberg terminal. Now perhaps you call them private because they were and still mostly are for institutional traders however they are published prices and/or RFQ systems or there are continuously published two sided quotes. Yes big trades happened on phones and Jane Street is still involved in it. When I think of a private market it means a market where prices and transactions are not published. So our terminology is different. Fundamentally we disagree on the role of dealers and market makers. In my personal extensive market experience they are foundational and always have been. They carry inventory and manage risk. This has happened literally for 1000s of years and even in early NYSE and in the earlier stock markets in London and Amsterdam they were the key players in the price discovery process. What you claim, that markets can even function with time restrictions and without two sided quoted dealers/makers in my world is absurd. I have nothing more to say. I don’t believe you have real world extensive market knowledge and if you do, you must he significantly younger than me. Goodnight.