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> you got different menus depending on whether you middle-clicked on the icon bar icon, or you right-clicked on the icon bar icon Are you sure you're talking a

> you got different menus depending on whether you middle-clicked on the icon bar icon, or you right-clicked on the icon bar icon Are you sure you're talking about RISC OS? Because you're got the overview right but your details are weird. Right-clicking never pops a menu in RISC OS. Only the middle button does that. That's why the buttons in RISC OS have names. They're not "left, middle, and right" they are "select, menu, and adjust". The "everything is an object" drag-and-drop was absurdly powerful. You're not limited to dragging into a directory, you can equally well "save" a file directly into another application, avoiding the middle step of dumping it onto the disk first. Personally, I find that the trend in making all UIs as easy as possible for the beginner to be a step backwards. Yes indeed, beginners can get going quicker, but then you've very quickly learned everything and there's no where to go. The pro user cannot work faster. The pro user cannot do more. We're all stuck behind fisher price interfaces. If you treat users as if they are children, they will always use your software like a child.

amiga386 3y ago
> Because you're got the overview right but your details are weird. Having just booted up RedSquirrel, yes, I accept I'm slightly misremembering. Right-clicking doesn't open a menu, it is consistently middle-click. However, it is still somewhat inconsistent. In several applications (for example, !Maestro or a filer icon), left and right click on the icon bar do the same thing, while in others (for example !Edit), only left click opens a new window and right click does nothing. Playing around with RISC OS 3.10 again, I'm also reminded of the nonsense that is menu items with arrows on them (indicating sub-menus, or sub-windows like save boxes) require you to successfully slide the mouse through the arrow to open them. Almost all other menus I've seen will open sub-menus as soon as you land _anywhere_ on the menu item. While drag-and-drop may be powerful, the ergonomics of the UI were atrocious. I don't think anyone at Acorn had heard of Fitts' Law. The tiny save box also required you had exactly the right filer window open, ready and waiting. You couldn't easily change your mind like you can with a file requester (and also with modern MacOS's spring-loaded folders). I also think the OS was designed with the expectation that overlapping windows would be _normal_, and I don't think that's ever been the case, certainly not how I use computers. Most windows I have open are fullscreen, and I switch between them (most commonly with the alt-tab concept that Windows brought). I might have _internal_ windows inside one app's window (for example, multiple code editing windows and terminals in an IDE, or tools, palettes and layers in graphics editing), but only on special occasions do I have two separate _application_ windows visibly open on the same screen, and when I do, they're usually side by side, not overlapping.
- jlarcombe 3y ago
  I still have all my windows overlapping, and I suspect it's because my formative years were spent in RISC OS. Also I still find "File Open" dialogs weird - every app having a miniature and less-functional tiny 'Filer' built in...
repelsteeltje 3y ago
> The "everything is an object" drag-and-drop was absurdly powerful. You're not limited to dragging into a directory, you can equally well "save" a file directly into another application, avoiding the middle step of dumping it onto the disk first. So true! For sure I was biased when I left RISC OS in favour of Windows 3.1 early 90s, but it took me years to get used to the clumsy COPY-CUT-PASTE metaphors still dominant today.

amiga386 3y ago

> Because you're got the overview right but your details are weird. Having just booted up RedSquirrel, yes, I accept I'm slightly misremembering. Right-clicking doesn't open a menu, it is consistently middle-click. However, it is still somewhat inconsistent. In several applications (for example, !Maestro or a filer icon), left and right click on the icon bar do the same thing, while in others (for example !Edit), only left click opens a new window and right click does nothing. Playing around with RISC OS 3.10 again, I'm also reminded of the nonsense that is menu items with arrows on them (indicating sub-menus, or sub-windows like save boxes) require you to successfully slide the mouse through the arrow to open them. Almost all other menus I've seen will open sub-menus as soon as you land _anywhere_ on the menu item. While drag-and-drop may be powerful, the ergonomics of the UI were atrocious. I don't think anyone at Acorn had heard of Fitts' Law. The tiny save box also required you had exactly the right filer window open, ready and waiting. You couldn't easily change your mind like you can with a file requester (and also with modern MacOS's spring-loaded folders). I also think the OS was designed with the expectation that overlapping windows would be _normal_, and I don't think that's ever been the case, certainly not how I use computers. Most windows I have open are fullscreen, and I switch between them (most commonly with the alt-tab concept that Windows brought). I might have _internal_ windows inside one app's window (for example, multiple code editing windows and terminals in an IDE, or tools, palettes and layers in graphics editing), but only on special occasions do I have two separate _application_ windows visibly open on the same screen, and when I do, they're usually side by side, not overlapping.

jlarcombe 3y ago
I still have all my windows overlapping, and I suspect it's because my formative years were spent in RISC OS. Also I still find "File Open" dialogs weird - every app having a miniature and less-functional tiny 'Filer' built in...

repelsteeltje 3y ago

> The "everything is an object" drag-and-drop was absurdly powerful. You're not limited to dragging into a directory, you can equally well "save" a file directly into another application, avoiding the middle step of dumping it onto the disk first. So true! For sure I was biased when I left RISC OS in favour of Windows 3.1 early 90s, but it took me years to get used to the clumsy COPY-CUT-PASTE metaphors still dominant today.