4 ms·

You assume that's a reasonable option for most people. Plenty of people have software, hardware, or other requirements to use Windows. It sucks, but it's quite

by RevEng 2y ago

You assume that's a reasonable option for most people. Plenty of people have software, hardware, or other requirements to use Windows. It sucks, but it's quite common. The enemy of good is perfect. Maybe we can't stop them spying or trying to force their way back in on every update, but we can fight back. If it's as simple as changing a few registry keys to disable ads, why wouldn't you just do it? "Stop using Windows or live with it" are not the only two options.

RIMR 2y ago
I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Personally, I think that if the computer you use has software on it that is actively spying on everything you do, you should remove that software from your computer. If that software happens to be the OS, I think the best way to "fight back" is to not pay the company spying on you money for the next version, and find an alternative that respects your privacy.
- jsheard 2y ago
  > I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Nearly every video game, for starters, and a good chunk of games that were ported to Mac OS don't work anymore since the deprecation of 32-bit apps.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    That's true for Mac OS but not all Non-Windows operating systems. The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming.
    - StableAlkyne 2y ago
      > The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming. That's always been the case -- the question is which games, not gaming in general If just being able to to load up a game was all that was needed, a TI-86 is sufficient Most people use Windows because it's easy and runs everything they want to run without needing to install wine, compile from source, trust some library someone made, or use a VM. The steam deck is fantastic and has done more for gaming on a Free OS than anyone else has in the last 20 years, but it can't run everything
  - treve 2y ago
    A massive body of games works perfectly fine under Proton. Exceptions exists of course, but if you want games you don't switch to Mac, you switch to Linux.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  > I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Most CAD software, unless you are OK with websites or glorified websites with desktop clients (looking at you, Fusion 360). Alibre? SolidWorks? Standard AutoCAD? Add CNC milling tools to that. Good luck finding Mac-compatible CAM software of any kind (unless, again, Fusion 360 and only Fusion 360).
  - autoexec 2y ago
    Thankfully the number of windows users that need to use CAD/CNC milling software is not statistically significant. At this point almost nearly all Windows users could stop using Windows at least for their home/personal use. If the only windows machines being used were on corporate LANs and on factory floors the world would be a better place.
    - NewsaHackO 2y ago
      True that there are not many users that need CAD, but you are missing the point. There are dozens of industries that require specialized software for day to day activities that can only be run on Windows or Mac. You can't just blow off the OS requirements for all of these industries. Honestly, I see this a lot in these discussions about using some toy OS or Linux. People don't realize that to work in the real world it isn't good enough to support 90% of the requirements when you need 100% to function.
      - autoexec 2y ago
        I know that companies run on Windows. Nearly every company I've worked for has subjected me to it. Many companies could switch away from windows and the reasons they don't include things like "we've always done it this way", tech support (both in terms of vendor support and in-house IT) is easier and cheaper with Windows, workers tend to be more familiar with it, etc. These are reasonable considerations, but nothing that can't be overcome. For many companies that are running specialized windows only software, some of that software will have only been written for Windows in the first place because Windows was either already being used by the company or because that was the expectation. Again, not unreasonable. When companies write their own software they write for the OS they have. When software companies want to sell their programs they'll naturally tend to target the most popular OS being used. It's sort of self-perpetuating that people use/write software for what they (or most people) already have. For software that couldn't be run using something like WINE it would take time/money to replace or rewrite that windows software. That's a hurdle, but not an impossible one to clear. I've worked at companies that were entirely dependent on the AS/400 or Lotus Notes, but they somehow made the investment and found other solutions. As much as I don't think web apps and SaaS are a good idea, those options will make it easier for some companies to let go of windows too. Right now, it probably wouldn't make sense for a lot of companies to stop using Windows. The same can't be said for what most people have installed on their personal computers though. The more alternatives to Windows spread outside of the office/factory the easier it gets to replace it in the workplace.
- linguae 2y ago
  Unfortunately a lot of proprietary software packages require either Windows or macOS, with no option for Linux users. Windows has its annoyances, but using macOS requires purchasing a Mac (I’m ignoring Hackintoshes). Since Apple is the only vendor of Macs, if Apple’s configurations don’t meet your needs or are too expensive, then tough luck. I was a long-time Mac user but I switched to PCs due to the proliferation of soldered RAM and storage plus the outrageously high prices for upgrades. I don’t like Windows but Macs require me to pay massive sums of money for future-proof configurations compared to PCs with user-upgradable components, and plus I need Microsoft Office and other proprietary tools, which prevents me from switching to Linux or the BSDs full time.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    >plus I need Microsoft Office and other proprietary tools, which prevents me from switching to Linux or the BSDs full time. Microsoft office runs on linux (https://thelinuxcode.com/install-microsoft-office-linux/ https://thelinuxcode.com/install-microsoft-office-linux/). I'd bet many of your proprietary tools do too (or could be replaced with more linux friendly software that still meets your needs). In the worst case scenario, a VM with windows on it would mean that you use Windows only for the one or two things you absolutely need it for and you're free of it the rest of the time.
  - codedokode 2y ago
    If you use Windows at work, then it is not a problem: nobody cares if Microsoft steals corporate secrets via telemetry, and you can wait if it decides to apply updates for 2 hours because you are paid for this time anyway. But home computer is a different thing. I don't want Microsoft to spy on me, reboot my computer and luckily I don't need Microsoft Office.
autoexec 2y ago
> Plenty of people have software, hardware, or other requirements to use Windows. I'd bet that the average person could run most if not all the software they use under linux and a large percentage of those who can't could find alternate software that works just as well for their needs which does run under linux. Hardware might be more of a concern, so for some "stop using Windows" might mean "buy a new desktop/laptop". There will certainly be a very small (and increasingly smaller) number of people who have zero choice but to use Windows. Many people do very little with their windows machines beside web browsing in the first place. > "Stop using Windows or live with it" are not the only two options. It very much is if "live with it" means MS does thing you don't like, you find a bunch of settings and registry changes that "fight back" only for MS to undo those settings and/or add more things you don't like which means you have to track down a new set of settings and registry changes to "fight back" which results in Microsoft doing more things you don't like and on and on. Is that really what you want to live with? At a certain point you have to ask yourself why you keep spending your time and energy fighting a battle you literally cannot win. Microsoft sets all the rules. You can only play their game or stop playing
- jmac01 2y ago
  You don't understand "the average person" in anyway, shape or form if you think they would even know what an operating system is... The average person will never use Linux. I prefer it as a dev, but windows and mac have won. Until some big vendor just releases a specifically linux machine, which they won't.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    > Until some big vendor just releases a specifically linux machine, which they won't. Tell that to Dell https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/ubuntu-linux/appref=37832 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/ubu...
    - timw4mail 2y ago
      ...and you have to know those exist to find them.

by RevEng 2y ago

RIMR 2y ago

I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Personally, I think that if the computer you use has software on it that is actively spying on everything you do, you should remove that software from your computer. If that software happens to be the OS, I think the best way to "fight back" is to not pay the company spying on you money for the next version, and find an alternative that respects your privacy.

jsheard 2y ago
> I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Nearly every video game, for starters, and a good chunk of games that were ported to Mac OS don't work anymore since the deprecation of 32-bit apps.
- autoexec 2y ago
  That's true for Mac OS but not all Non-Windows operating systems. The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming.
  - StableAlkyne 2y ago
    > The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming. That's always been the case -- the question is which games, not gaming in general If just being able to to load up a game was all that was needed, a TI-86 is sufficient Most people use Windows because it's easy and runs everything they want to run without needing to install wine, compile from source, trust some library someone made, or use a VM. The steam deck is fantastic and has done more for gaming on a Free OS than anyone else has in the last 20 years, but it can't run everything
- treve 2y ago
  A massive body of games works perfectly fine under Proton. Exceptions exists of course, but if you want games you don't switch to Mac, you switch to Linux.
gjsman-1000 2y ago
> I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Most CAD software, unless you are OK with websites or glorified websites with desktop clients (looking at you, Fusion 360). Alibre? SolidWorks? Standard AutoCAD? Add CNC milling tools to that. Good luck finding Mac-compatible CAM software of any kind (unless, again, Fusion 360 and only Fusion 360).
- autoexec 2y ago
  Thankfully the number of windows users that need to use CAD/CNC milling software is not statistically significant. At this point almost nearly all Windows users could stop using Windows at least for their home/personal use. If the only windows machines being used were on corporate LANs and on factory floors the world would be a better place.
  - NewsaHackO 2y ago
    True that there are not many users that need CAD, but you are missing the point. There are dozens of industries that require specialized software for day to day activities that can only be run on Windows or Mac. You can't just blow off the OS requirements for all of these industries. Honestly, I see this a lot in these discussions about using some toy OS or Linux. People don't realize that to work in the real world it isn't good enough to support 90% of the requirements when you need 100% to function.
    - autoexec 2y ago
      I know that companies run on Windows. Nearly every company I've worked for has subjected me to it. Many companies could switch away from windows and the reasons they don't include things like "we've always done it this way", tech support (both in terms of vendor support and in-house IT) is easier and cheaper with Windows, workers tend to be more familiar with it, etc. These are reasonable considerations, but nothing that can't be overcome. For many companies that are running specialized windows only software, some of that software will have only been written for Windows in the first place because Windows was either already being used by the company or because that was the expectation. Again, not unreasonable. When companies write their own software they write for the OS they have. When software companies want to sell their programs they'll naturally tend to target the most popular OS being used. It's sort of self-perpetuating that people use/write software for what they (or most people) already have. For software that couldn't be run using something like WINE it would take time/money to replace or rewrite that windows software. That's a hurdle, but not an impossible one to clear. I've worked at companies that were entirely dependent on the AS/400 or Lotus Notes, but they somehow made the investment and found other solutions. As much as I don't think web apps and SaaS are a good idea, those options will make it easier for some companies to let go of windows too. Right now, it probably wouldn't make sense for a lot of companies to stop using Windows. The same can't be said for what most people have installed on their personal computers though. The more alternatives to Windows spread outside of the office/factory the easier it gets to replace it in the workplace.
linguae 2y ago
Unfortunately a lot of proprietary software packages require either Windows or macOS, with no option for Linux users. Windows has its annoyances, but using macOS requires purchasing a Mac (I’m ignoring Hackintoshes). Since Apple is the only vendor of Macs, if Apple’s configurations don’t meet your needs or are too expensive, then tough luck. I was a long-time Mac user but I switched to PCs due to the proliferation of soldered RAM and storage plus the outrageously high prices for upgrades. I don’t like Windows but Macs require me to pay massive sums of money for future-proof configurations compared to PCs with user-upgradable components, and plus I need Microsoft Office and other proprietary tools, which prevents me from switching to Linux or the BSDs full time.
- autoexec 2y ago
  >plus I need Microsoft Office and other proprietary tools, which prevents me from switching to Linux or the BSDs full time. Microsoft office runs on linux (https://thelinuxcode.com/install-microsoft-office-linux/ https://thelinuxcode.com/install-microsoft-office-linux/). I'd bet many of your proprietary tools do too (or could be replaced with more linux friendly software that still meets your needs). In the worst case scenario, a VM with windows on it would mean that you use Windows only for the one or two things you absolutely need it for and you're free of it the rest of the time.
- codedokode 2y ago
  If you use Windows at work, then it is not a problem: nobody cares if Microsoft steals corporate secrets via telemetry, and you can wait if it decides to apply updates for 2 hours because you are paid for this time anyway. But home computer is a different thing. I don't want Microsoft to spy on me, reboot my computer and luckily I don't need Microsoft Office.

autoexec 2y ago

> Plenty of people have software, hardware, or other requirements to use Windows. I'd bet that the average person could run most if not all the software they use under linux and a large percentage of those who can't could find alternate software that works just as well for their needs which does run under linux. Hardware might be more of a concern, so for some "stop using Windows" might mean "buy a new desktop/laptop". There will certainly be a very small (and increasingly smaller) number of people who have zero choice but to use Windows. Many people do very little with their windows machines beside web browsing in the first place. > "Stop using Windows or live with it" are not the only two options. It very much is if "live with it" means MS does thing you don't like, you find a bunch of settings and registry changes that "fight back" only for MS to undo those settings and/or add more things you don't like which means you have to track down a new set of settings and registry changes to "fight back" which results in Microsoft doing more things you don't like and on and on. Is that really what you want to live with? At a certain point you have to ask yourself why you keep spending your time and energy fighting a battle you literally cannot win. Microsoft sets all the rules. You can only play their game or stop playing

jmac01 2y ago
You don't understand "the average person" in anyway, shape or form if you think they would even know what an operating system is... The average person will never use Linux. I prefer it as a dev, but windows and mac have won. Until some big vendor just releases a specifically linux machine, which they won't.
- autoexec 2y ago
  > Until some big vendor just releases a specifically linux machine, which they won't. Tell that to Dell https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/ubuntu-linux/appref=37832 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/ubu...
  - timw4mail 2y ago
    ...and you have to know those exist to find them.