6 ms·

I get why people want things like this, but it's pointless to try to fight against a user-hostile OS that forces updates on you whenever they feel like it since

I get why people want things like this, but it's pointless to try to fight against a user-hostile OS that forces updates on you whenever they feel like it since any one of those updates can undo anything you've changed and introduce much worse. Microsoft has already decided that they will collect as much of your private data as they can in order to turn their Windows OS into an advertising platform. If that bothers you the only real solution is to stop using Windows.

ProllyInfamous 2y ago
>If that bothers you the only real solution is to stop using Windows. I don't know, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit is still a pretty great solution, personally.
- babypuncher 2y ago
  There is lots of popular consumer software that no longer runs on Windows 7.
  - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
    Steam stopped working this year, forcing me to consider updating to Windows 10... but still hasn't happened, yet.
    - timw4mail 2y ago
      Last I checked (a month or 2 ago), Steam still works on Windows 7, but is unsupported.
      - babypuncher 2y ago
        You can basically keep using the last supported version of Steam, but it will eventually break. However few if any new games support the old operating system at all. Windows 7 is a complete non-starter in 2024, it's too old.
- RIMR 2y ago
  Using a 15 year old OS that hasn't had a security update for over 4 years as your daily driver isn't something I would recommend anyone do. ESU ended over a year ago, so you're stuck on an abandoned OS even if you're willing to pay for updates. Apple has been keeping the user experience a priority in all their latest updates, and Linux desktops are more usable than they've ever been. There's absolutely no reason to use Windows 7 for anything important if Windows 11 is a dealbreaker. Microsoft isn't about to reverse course and make Windows good again, so if you've already decided not to use Windows 11, start the process of acclimating to a new OS now, rather than stagnating on a dead OS that is only going to get less safe to use moving forward. If budget is a concern, I promise you your Windows 7 PC will run Linux. If you are experiencing the sunken cost of all the Windows-exclusive software that you have already purchased, then pony up for a Windows 11 PC, because you're not going to survive on a EOL Windows OS for very long.
  - jxramos 2y ago
    I'm curious what is the vulnerability there exactly, would it be from the browser or the browser not getting updates? If someone were to bring a Win95 machine online and connected to the web today would it be bombarded with assaults or something? I'm curious the mechanics of this all.
    - StableAlkyne 2y ago
      It's less about known vulnerabilities, and more about how there is nobody to care about vulnerabilities on the OS anymore. Why tie your horse to an abandoned platform?
    - Terr_ 2y ago
      Two random examples: A malicious Word document that when opened can automatically run an attacker's Powershell script [0], or if you're tricked into using Remote Desktop to access an attacker they can run commands on your machine [1]. [0] https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-30190/ https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-30190/ [1] https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-21851/ https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-21851/
    - 2y ago
RevEng 2y ago
You assume that's a reasonable option for most people. Plenty of people have software, hardware, or other requirements to use Windows. It sucks, but it's quite common. The enemy of good is perfect. Maybe we can't stop them spying or trying to force their way back in on every update, but we can fight back. If it's as simple as changing a few registry keys to disable ads, why wouldn't you just do it? "Stop using Windows or live with it" are not the only two options.
- RIMR 2y ago
  I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Personally, I think that if the computer you use has software on it that is actively spying on everything you do, you should remove that software from your computer. If that software happens to be the OS, I think the best way to "fight back" is to not pay the company spying on you money for the next version, and find an alternative that respects your privacy.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    > I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Nearly every video game, for starters, and a good chunk of games that were ported to Mac OS don't work anymore since the deprecation of 32-bit apps.
    - autoexec 2y ago
      That's true for Mac OS but not all Non-Windows operating systems. The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming.
      - StableAlkyne 2y ago
        > The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming. That's always been the case -- the question is which games, not gaming in general If just being able to to load up a game was all that was needed, a TI-86 is sufficient Most people use Windows because it's easy and runs everything they want to run without needing to install wine, compile from source, trust some library someone made, or use a VM. The steam deck is fantastic and has done more for gaming on a Free OS than anyone else has in the last 20 years, but it can't run everything
tbyehl 2y ago
I'm old enough to remember when Microsoft not forcing updates upon their users was considered an existential threat to humanity.
- autoexec 2y ago
  That was the line they fed us. I'm old enough to remember a time when software that automatically phoned home just to check if an update was available would be considered spyware. It was none of their business knowing the dates and times that we used their product/connected to the internet or what our IP address was
XorNot 2y ago
One argument here is that it cuts of Microsoft being able to declare that this is "vital OS functionality" when it obviously isn't. What I'd like to see is regulation banning doing this. Given how many governments use Microsoft products including in sensitive applications, this should be an obvious demand.
Phiwise_ 2y ago
The implication here is to move to a non-user-hostile OS, but is irrelevant as no such system both exists and is currently well-maintained.

ProllyInfamous 2y ago

>If that bothers you the only real solution is to stop using Windows. I don't know, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit is still a pretty great solution, personally.

babypuncher 2y ago
There is lots of popular consumer software that no longer runs on Windows 7.
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  Steam stopped working this year, forcing me to consider updating to Windows 10... but still hasn't happened, yet.
  - timw4mail 2y ago
    Last I checked (a month or 2 ago), Steam still works on Windows 7, but is unsupported.
    - babypuncher 2y ago
      You can basically keep using the last supported version of Steam, but it will eventually break. However few if any new games support the old operating system at all. Windows 7 is a complete non-starter in 2024, it's too old.
RIMR 2y ago
Using a 15 year old OS that hasn't had a security update for over 4 years as your daily driver isn't something I would recommend anyone do. ESU ended over a year ago, so you're stuck on an abandoned OS even if you're willing to pay for updates. Apple has been keeping the user experience a priority in all their latest updates, and Linux desktops are more usable than they've ever been. There's absolutely no reason to use Windows 7 for anything important if Windows 11 is a dealbreaker. Microsoft isn't about to reverse course and make Windows good again, so if you've already decided not to use Windows 11, start the process of acclimating to a new OS now, rather than stagnating on a dead OS that is only going to get less safe to use moving forward. If budget is a concern, I promise you your Windows 7 PC will run Linux. If you are experiencing the sunken cost of all the Windows-exclusive software that you have already purchased, then pony up for a Windows 11 PC, because you're not going to survive on a EOL Windows OS for very long.
- jxramos 2y ago
  I'm curious what is the vulnerability there exactly, would it be from the browser or the browser not getting updates? If someone were to bring a Win95 machine online and connected to the web today would it be bombarded with assaults or something? I'm curious the mechanics of this all.
  - StableAlkyne 2y ago
    It's less about known vulnerabilities, and more about how there is nobody to care about vulnerabilities on the OS anymore. Why tie your horse to an abandoned platform?
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    Two random examples: A malicious Word document that when opened can automatically run an attacker's Powershell script [0], or if you're tricked into using Remote Desktop to access an attacker they can run commands on your machine [1]. [0] https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-30190/ https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-30190/ [1] https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-21851/ https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2022-21851/
  - 2y ago

RevEng 2y ago

You assume that's a reasonable option for most people. Plenty of people have software, hardware, or other requirements to use Windows. It sucks, but it's quite common. The enemy of good is perfect. Maybe we can't stop them spying or trying to force their way back in on every update, but we can fight back. If it's as simple as changing a few registry keys to disable ads, why wouldn't you just do it? "Stop using Windows or live with it" are not the only two options.

RIMR 2y ago
I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Personally, I think that if the computer you use has software on it that is actively spying on everything you do, you should remove that software from your computer. If that software happens to be the OS, I think the best way to "fight back" is to not pay the company spying on you money for the next version, and find an alternative that respects your privacy.
- jsheard 2y ago
  > I really can't think of any common Windows-only software. At least nothing that wouldn't run on Mac OS. Nearly every video game, for starters, and a good chunk of games that were ported to Mac OS don't work anymore since the deprecation of 32-bit apps.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    That's true for Mac OS but not all Non-Windows operating systems. The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming.
    - StableAlkyne 2y ago
      > The steam deck proved that we don't need windows for gaming. That's always been the case -- the question is which games, not gaming in general If just being able to to load up a game was all that was needed, a TI-86 is sufficient Most people use Windows because it's easy and runs everything they want to run without needing to install wine, compile from source, trust some library someone made, or use a VM. The steam deck is fantastic and has done more for gaming on a Free OS than anyone else has in the last 20 years, but it can't run everything

tbyehl 2y ago

I'm old enough to remember when Microsoft not forcing updates upon their users was considered an existential threat to humanity.

autoexec 2y ago
That was the line they fed us. I'm old enough to remember a time when software that automatically phoned home just to check if an update was available would be considered spyware. It was none of their business knowing the dates and times that we used their product/connected to the internet or what our IP address was

XorNot 2y ago

One argument here is that it cuts of Microsoft being able to declare that this is "vital OS functionality" when it obviously isn't. What I'd like to see is regulation banning doing this. Given how many governments use Microsoft products including in sensitive applications, this should be an obvious demand.

Phiwise_ 2y ago

The implication here is to move to a non-user-hostile OS, but is irrelevant as no such system both exists and is currently well-maintained.