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When and where did that really ever work? Evidence please. The bible says nothing about America. I assume that abolishing slavery was where we turned away from

When and where did that really ever work? Evidence please. The bible says nothing about America. I assume that abolishing slavery was where we turned away from biblical principles.

nickpsecurity 2y ago
You don’t even really need it. You can go right to the roots. Let’s compare two sets of things on a basic level. 1. You know God will judge what good or evil you did at the end of your life. You factor that into your decisions. 2. You think we’re an accident, nothing matters, people are just over animals, actually just chemical reactions, universe itself disappears in enough time, nothing matters in the long term unless you say so, and no accountability for any horrible thing you did. Which is more likely to lead to righteous behavior? Which is more likely to lead to destructive behavior? Next set are Christ’s basic commandments vs the world’s: 1. Love and obey God first. That means truth, justice, avoiding self-destructive behavior, family, and good work ethic. From there, love others as you would yourself in all your interactions with them. 2. Do whatever you want to whoever you want. It might be limited by whatever is popular at the time which will change. The Devil has most media focusing on individualism over family, squeezing max profit out of everything, and chasing pleasures with reckless abandon. Which of these logically creates more good? Which leads to more damage? I think we could stop there. The consequences of just those differences in believes are tremendous. Those in set 2 are currently doing the most damage in all areas of life. They include people who identify as Christian but don’t live like it. Lip service. Whereas, my first-hand experience with hundreds of people following Christ and Biblical teaching is that it’s working. Their problems often come from sin, not obedience.
- bittercynic 2y ago
  I haven't observed any correlation between belief in God and righteous or destructive behavior. Seems like most theists and most atheists try to live the virtues you've described as best they can. I'm an atheist, and I do my best to live those virtues because it's just the right thing to do, and because it feels better than the alternatives. I don't think I'm exceptional in not needing a final judgement to make me want to be kind, honest, work for justice, live with integrity, etc. Much respect to my theist brothers and sisters, and please consider that your atheist brothers and sisters are worthy of respect as well.
- wvenable 2y ago
  There is nothing less moral to me than the idea of people only doing good because they fear punishment.
  - Given_47 2y ago
    Yea, Spinoza effectively argues that the Commandments were necessitated by practical utility to control the unruly and uneducated masses and have since become even more bastardized by sectarian religions that wield these appeals to control people and actually prevent them to fully getting to know "God", which he finds entirely possible through reason alone. And humorously, the latter of each of GP's respective points map pretty well to the destructive effects of what Nietzsche most feared of what he sensed was impending nihilism. Tho the difference, among many, is that "belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable".
  - nickpsecurity 2y ago
    We do evil for selfish reasons. God’s Word says the Father draws us to Him, faith itself is a gift He enables, and those who repent receive eternal life and close fellowship with God Himself. Then, His presence in our lives in many ways from changing character to answered prayers. Committing to rebellion in this life gains us nothing in the long term in comparison. A sovereign ruler who is just necessarily has to enforce the law. That sinning against a perfect, loving, and good being would be punished severely shouldn’t shock you. It would happen in human, legal systems and likely your own house. The beauty is God’s mercy outweighs His wrath. The wages of sin are death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. He took the punishment for us so we can just turn away from sin and back to God. Then, He never lets us go. You do have to put your God first, though.
    - Integrape 2y ago
      Sir, this is a Red Lobster comment thread.
      - nickpsecurity 2y ago
        The parent that I originally responded to asked a broader question about why we’re seeing declines, esp moral and quality, across many areas of life. They were wondering if this example was one of a general trend happening. I showed it was. There were also predictions about what would happen if we followed Christ and His model vs other models centered on selfish gain. The other side denied the Biblical truth saying we’d have a better America with godlessness, capitalism, and/or communism. We’ve had time to see where those philosophies would take us. What happened? God’s Word came true quite literally in many ways while the godless’ predictions were wrong with damaging results. So, the rational choice between multiple worldviews is to think the one that works and has correct predictions is true (or better). And then commit to Christ and repent. Now, let’s tie that directly into Red Lobster: 1. Christ-like business over worldly greed would have the new owners not sell the real estate the business depended on. 2. Jethro and Paul said to pick leaders of great character and wisdom who aren’t sellouts. They’d have managed it better. 3. Humility in the service sector means constantly listening to customers to adapt to their needs since we put others first. Red Lobster would’ve changed with the times in some way which might have worked out (or not). 4. Proverbs focused on equitable or profitable arrangements. Jesus said to count the cost before you commit to a plan. The Bible often says to seek counsel. These would preclude all you can eat shrimp every day. In short, Biblical morals would’ve prevented every aspect of this situation. Whereas, godless, unloving capitalism… all those together… naturally leads to things like this. If you will benefit from, but never be held accountable for, destroying the chain… why not make a fortune destroying it?
- beardicus 2y ago
  lol. congrats on working a sermon into a post about red lobster but... this is exceedingly poor argumentation if your goal is to actually convince anybody. it's spot-on if you just want to feel good about yourself though. you start off with a whopper of a false dichotomy and strawman, and don't improve from there.
- quantified 2y ago
  Good morals are basic math: create the world you want to live in. Golden rule and all that. It turns out that Allah and Vishnu are both quite popular. And none of it supported by actual evidence. We can do better. God's plan is never to reveal that God makes any sense, just random whims. The immoral false prophets get rich and influence millions. So, gotta wait until you die to find out? Maybe. But the Abrahamic bible is so full of misinterpreted BS as to be unusable.

When and where did that really ever work? Evidence please. The bible says nothing about America. I assume that abolishing slavery was where we turned away from biblical principles.

nickpsecurity 2y ago

You don’t even really need it. You can go right to the roots. Let’s compare two sets of things on a basic level. 1. You know God will judge what good or evil you did at the end of your life. You factor that into your decisions. 2. You think we’re an accident, nothing matters, people are just over animals, actually just chemical reactions, universe itself disappears in enough time, nothing matters in the long term unless you say so, and no accountability for any horrible thing you did. Which is more likely to lead to righteous behavior? Which is more likely to lead to destructive behavior? Next set are Christ’s basic commandments vs the world’s: 1. Love and obey God first. That means truth, justice, avoiding self-destructive behavior, family, and good work ethic. From there, love others as you would yourself in all your interactions with them. 2. Do whatever you want to whoever you want. It might be limited by whatever is popular at the time which will change. The Devil has most media focusing on individualism over family, squeezing max profit out of everything, and chasing pleasures with reckless abandon. Which of these logically creates more good? Which leads to more damage? I think we could stop there. The consequences of just those differences in believes are tremendous. Those in set 2 are currently doing the most damage in all areas of life. They include people who identify as Christian but don’t live like it. Lip service. Whereas, my first-hand experience with hundreds of people following Christ and Biblical teaching is that it’s working. Their problems often come from sin, not obedience.

bittercynic 2y ago
I haven't observed any correlation between belief in God and righteous or destructive behavior. Seems like most theists and most atheists try to live the virtues you've described as best they can. I'm an atheist, and I do my best to live those virtues because it's just the right thing to do, and because it feels better than the alternatives. I don't think I'm exceptional in not needing a final judgement to make me want to be kind, honest, work for justice, live with integrity, etc. Much respect to my theist brothers and sisters, and please consider that your atheist brothers and sisters are worthy of respect as well.
wvenable 2y ago
There is nothing less moral to me than the idea of people only doing good because they fear punishment.
- Given_47 2y ago
  Yea, Spinoza effectively argues that the Commandments were necessitated by practical utility to control the unruly and uneducated masses and have since become even more bastardized by sectarian religions that wield these appeals to control people and actually prevent them to fully getting to know "God", which he finds entirely possible through reason alone. And humorously, the latter of each of GP's respective points map pretty well to the destructive effects of what Nietzsche most feared of what he sensed was impending nihilism. Tho the difference, among many, is that "belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable".
- nickpsecurity 2y ago
  We do evil for selfish reasons. God’s Word says the Father draws us to Him, faith itself is a gift He enables, and those who repent receive eternal life and close fellowship with God Himself. Then, His presence in our lives in many ways from changing character to answered prayers. Committing to rebellion in this life gains us nothing in the long term in comparison. A sovereign ruler who is just necessarily has to enforce the law. That sinning against a perfect, loving, and good being would be punished severely shouldn’t shock you. It would happen in human, legal systems and likely your own house. The beauty is God’s mercy outweighs His wrath. The wages of sin are death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. He took the punishment for us so we can just turn away from sin and back to God. Then, He never lets us go. You do have to put your God first, though.
  - Integrape 2y ago
    Sir, this is a Red Lobster comment thread.
    - nickpsecurity 2y ago
      The parent that I originally responded to asked a broader question about why we’re seeing declines, esp moral and quality, across many areas of life. They were wondering if this example was one of a general trend happening. I showed it was. There were also predictions about what would happen if we followed Christ and His model vs other models centered on selfish gain. The other side denied the Biblical truth saying we’d have a better America with godlessness, capitalism, and/or communism. We’ve had time to see where those philosophies would take us. What happened? God’s Word came true quite literally in many ways while the godless’ predictions were wrong with damaging results. So, the rational choice between multiple worldviews is to think the one that works and has correct predictions is true (or better). And then commit to Christ and repent. Now, let’s tie that directly into Red Lobster: 1. Christ-like business over worldly greed would have the new owners not sell the real estate the business depended on. 2. Jethro and Paul said to pick leaders of great character and wisdom who aren’t sellouts. They’d have managed it better. 3. Humility in the service sector means constantly listening to customers to adapt to their needs since we put others first. Red Lobster would’ve changed with the times in some way which might have worked out (or not). 4. Proverbs focused on equitable or profitable arrangements. Jesus said to count the cost before you commit to a plan. The Bible often says to seek counsel. These would preclude all you can eat shrimp every day. In short, Biblical morals would’ve prevented every aspect of this situation. Whereas, godless, unloving capitalism… all those together… naturally leads to things like this. If you will benefit from, but never be held accountable for, destroying the chain… why not make a fortune destroying it?
beardicus 2y ago
lol. congrats on working a sermon into a post about red lobster but... this is exceedingly poor argumentation if your goal is to actually convince anybody. it's spot-on if you just want to feel good about yourself though. you start off with a whopper of a false dichotomy and strawman, and don't improve from there.
quantified 2y ago
Good morals are basic math: create the world you want to live in. Golden rule and all that. It turns out that Allah and Vishnu are both quite popular. And none of it supported by actual evidence. We can do better. God's plan is never to reveal that God makes any sense, just random whims. The immoral false prophets get rich and influence millions. So, gotta wait until you die to find out? Maybe. But the Abrahamic bible is so full of misinterpreted BS as to be unusable.