4 ms·

Hopefully the EU is not satisfied until the status quo is such that one can program, build, distribute and have their users run native apps without ever enterin

Hopefully the EU is not satisfied until the status quo is such that one can program, build, distribute and have their users run native apps without ever entering into a contractual relationship with Apple.

FredPret 2y ago
Why this obsession with native apps? Just put your program online, and now the entire planet can get to it.
- EMIRELADERO 2y ago
  Some things you just can't do without a native app, especially on mobile.
  - Asmod4n 2y ago
    iOS now has fully functioning service workers and push notifications for web apps, that was the only thing web apps didn't have that native apps could do?
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      You can't do TCP and UDP.
- user_7832 2y ago
  Native apps can still do/access a lot more things than a web app. Though now I'm curious: is there any web app that allows Apple Pencil input properly?
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    > Native apps can still do/access a lot more things than a web app. Could you even say that they access some core technologies?
    - mmastrac 2y ago
      Apple doesn't even give you the option to program against the bare metal kernel and a GPU surface so that's a pretty unfair leading question.
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        If you have the physical device, you can do anything you want with it, Apple can not know what you do and cannot do anything about what you do. Are they obliged to provide you with free systems and technologies to program against the bare metal ?
        mmastrac 2y ago
        It's my bare metal, so ... yes?
        carlosjobim 2y ago
        You have it and can do whatever you want with it. Why should Apple be obliged to provide you with any other services in exchange for nothing?
        EMIRELADERO 2y ago
        The OS and its APIs aren't a service, they're a good. A good provided to every iDevice purchaser.
        FredPret 2y ago
        I think if you read the EULA you'll be sadly disillusioned about your rights to use the APIs. You may own the silicon, but you're renting the OS. I wish there was an amazing desktop / mobile Linux. (Maybe next year lol) Maybe voice / brainwave powered AI will be able to translate our needs into shell commands which then goes into our contact lens supercomputer running Stallman-approved Linux.
- yunohn 2y ago
  Since when do web apps on iOS have parity with native apps? Android does a better job, but native apps are always more privileged.
- rezonant 2y ago
  I'm a huge proponent of the web, but Apple shouldn't be able to dictate what stack I use to build an app, especially when they also control what capabilities reach the "open" web platform on their devices.
- valianteffort 2y ago
  Web is a shit platform for most apps. Run code natively and locally unless it's simply not feasible.
- TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
  Can I access to BLE from Web? No I can't so that's the reason why I need native app.
  - paulmd 2y ago
    > Can I access to BLE from Web? sure? It’s just not something supported in the minimal safari implementation, iOS browsers can implement support if they want. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bluefy-web-ble-browser/id1492822055 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bluefy-web-ble-browser/id14928...
    - TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
      Can I do it without user installing additional applications? Because at that point, it would be easier just write my own app, than be dependent on 3rd party app.
      - paulmd 2y ago
        why would you write a web browser just to avoid installing an off the shelf one? Seems weird but ok. Maybe you are “not the average consumer”. But it generally seems like a disingenuous and bad-faith response to avoid challenging your (incorrect) assumptions. Pretty typical for the topic at this point, unfortunately. The android folk have just veered off into “everyone gets their own version of the facts” territory, can’t count how many people have told me there’s no file browser or that you can’t compile your own apps in macOS etc. The end is all that matters, facts are fungible. Epistemic closure, basically.
- beeboobaa3 2y ago
  Good question. What is with Apple's obsession with native apps? Why are they gimping web apps every chance they get? The answer is obvious, of course. To force developers to make native apps so they can steal 30%, or whatever these new ridiculous terms are.

FredPret 2y ago

Why this obsession with native apps? Just put your program online, and now the entire planet can get to it.

EMIRELADERO 2y ago
Some things you just can't do without a native app, especially on mobile.
- Asmod4n 2y ago
  iOS now has fully functioning service workers and push notifications for web apps, that was the only thing web apps didn't have that native apps could do?
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    You can't do TCP and UDP.
user_7832 2y ago
Native apps can still do/access a lot more things than a web app. Though now I'm curious: is there any web app that allows Apple Pencil input properly?
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  > Native apps can still do/access a lot more things than a web app. Could you even say that they access some core technologies?
  - mmastrac 2y ago
    Apple doesn't even give you the option to program against the bare metal kernel and a GPU surface so that's a pretty unfair leading question.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      If you have the physical device, you can do anything you want with it, Apple can not know what you do and cannot do anything about what you do. Are they obliged to provide you with free systems and technologies to program against the bare metal ?
      - mmastrac 2y ago
        It's my bare metal, so ... yes?
        carlosjobim 2y ago
        You have it and can do whatever you want with it. Why should Apple be obliged to provide you with any other services in exchange for nothing?
        EMIRELADERO 2y ago
        The OS and its APIs aren't a service, they're a good. A good provided to every iDevice purchaser.
        FredPret 2y ago
        I think if you read the EULA you'll be sadly disillusioned about your rights to use the APIs. You may own the silicon, but you're renting the OS. I wish there was an amazing desktop / mobile Linux. (Maybe next year lol) Maybe voice / brainwave powered AI will be able to translate our needs into shell commands which then goes into our contact lens supercomputer running Stallman-approved Linux.
yunohn 2y ago
Since when do web apps on iOS have parity with native apps? Android does a better job, but native apps are always more privileged.
rezonant 2y ago
I'm a huge proponent of the web, but Apple shouldn't be able to dictate what stack I use to build an app, especially when they also control what capabilities reach the "open" web platform on their devices.
valianteffort 2y ago
Web is a shit platform for most apps. Run code natively and locally unless it's simply not feasible.
TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
Can I access to BLE from Web? No I can't so that's the reason why I need native app.
- paulmd 2y ago
  > Can I access to BLE from Web? sure? It’s just not something supported in the minimal safari implementation, iOS browsers can implement support if they want. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bluefy-web-ble-browser/id1492822055 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bluefy-web-ble-browser/id14928...
  - TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
    Can I do it without user installing additional applications? Because at that point, it would be easier just write my own app, than be dependent on 3rd party app.
    - paulmd 2y ago
      why would you write a web browser just to avoid installing an off the shelf one? Seems weird but ok. Maybe you are “not the average consumer”. But it generally seems like a disingenuous and bad-faith response to avoid challenging your (incorrect) assumptions. Pretty typical for the topic at this point, unfortunately. The android folk have just veered off into “everyone gets their own version of the facts” territory, can’t count how many people have told me there’s no file browser or that you can’t compile your own apps in macOS etc. The end is all that matters, facts are fungible. Epistemic closure, basically.
beeboobaa3 2y ago
Good question. What is with Apple's obsession with native apps? Why are they gimping web apps every chance they get? The answer is obvious, of course. To force developers to make native apps so they can steal 30%, or whatever these new ridiculous terms are.