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I really like plan 9 conceptually, but what am I supposed to actually do with it? Here's a list of services I need to provide, can I do any of these with plan

I really like plan 9 conceptually, but what am I supposed to actually do with it? Here's a list of services I need to provide, can I do any of these with plan 9? Email (smtp+ssl, pop3+ssl, imap+ssl, greylisting + spam and virus scanning, virtual accounts authenticating against some central source like ldap) central authentication (windows domain, kerberos domain, something along those lines that can authenticate windows clients) file servers (again, windows clients, using central authentication) web servers (just simple static file serving and proxying dynamic content to app servers) database server (no postgresql for plan 9 still) app servers (pretty much no languages support plan 9, so our custom web apps are a no go right?) As far as I know, I can't do any of those things with plan 9. Am I mistaken? Is there something I am not thinking of that I could use it for? Do people only use it in their own private little plan 9 only networks? It doesn't make much sense to offer plan 9 as an alternative to unix-like systems if it can't do 99.9% of the things unix-like systems are used for.

dmm 14y ago
> but what am I supposed to actually do with it? Plan 9 is a research os that was made to explore the rigorous implementation of a few key ideas. You're missing the point if your criticism of it is that it doesn't run your favorite database. If you like the ideas that Plan 9 implements you should apply them to you favorite big and nasty, full-of-compromises, gets-real-work-done OS. For example, a key idea in Plan 9 is that all resources, from files and networks, to a processes runtime environment, to compute clusters should be represented as an entry in a single hierarchical namespace that is accessed with file semantics(read(),write()). This is a really cool approach. It makes interacting with resources really easy. You can use any tools that manipulate files. It allows easy remote sharing and manipulation. Want to use a printer on a different machine? Mount the printer and go. Want to write to a remote screen? Mount the framebuffer and go. Want to administer a running daemon? Mount the directory that represents it and starting messing around. You can also create your own resources in this namespace. An example was a computing cluster with a file interface. Want to run a program on the cluster? Just mount the file an write your binary to it. It is a neat approach and I would recommend you check it out.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  I am not making a criticism, I am asking a question. I already know about plan 9, I don't need to "check it out". I would like to know how I can actually use it for something, rather than just play with it for a couple hours and go "yeah ok, that was cool".
  - lubutu 14y ago
    It very much depends on what you want to do. But yes, you can certainly do things with Plan 9. Ruling out Plan 9 because it does run a certain language, or doesn't run Postgres, is like ruling out Linux because it can't run Microsoft Office. It is intended for a different purpose. Also note that Coraid use Plan 9 in a lot of their systems, to do real work (specifically SANs). Edit: Also, Plan 9 has HTTP servers, CIFS support, central authentication (factotum), etc. I suggest you Google them.
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      I gave a list of things I want to do. The typical server stuff 99% of unix-like systems are used for. I am not ruling out plan 9, I am asking what it can be used for. Why do people keep insisting on deliberately misrepresenting a question as a criticism? I know plan 9 has factotum, but "google it" sure doesn't help me find a way to use it to authenticate windows clients. Or authenticate anything other than plan 9 for that matter. Aquarela doesn't even claim to work, and it is actually much worse in practice than it claims to be. And it can't be part of a domain can it? I'm not trying to be critical here, but when I ask "what can I actually do with plan 9?" I am genuinely interested in a serious answer. Stuff like "well there's an unsupported kinda buggy thing that doesn't actually do what you need anyways" is just a less honest way of saying "you can't use it for anything".
      - tedunangst 14y ago
        You can play with it. You can write little programs and compile them. You can poke around its everything is a file filesystem. Your question is like "what can I do with a slinkie?"

dmm 14y ago

> but what am I supposed to actually do with it? Plan 9 is a research os that was made to explore the rigorous implementation of a few key ideas. You're missing the point if your criticism of it is that it doesn't run your favorite database. If you like the ideas that Plan 9 implements you should apply them to you favorite big and nasty, full-of-compromises, gets-real-work-done OS. For example, a key idea in Plan 9 is that all resources, from files and networks, to a processes runtime environment, to compute clusters should be represented as an entry in a single hierarchical namespace that is accessed with file semantics(read(),write()). This is a really cool approach. It makes interacting with resources really easy. You can use any tools that manipulate files. It allows easy remote sharing and manipulation. Want to use a printer on a different machine? Mount the printer and go. Want to write to a remote screen? Mount the framebuffer and go. Want to administer a running daemon? Mount the directory that represents it and starting messing around. You can also create your own resources in this namespace. An example was a computing cluster with a file interface. Want to run a program on the cluster? Just mount the file an write your binary to it. It is a neat approach and I would recommend you check it out.

papsosouid 14y ago
I am not making a criticism, I am asking a question. I already know about plan 9, I don't need to "check it out". I would like to know how I can actually use it for something, rather than just play with it for a couple hours and go "yeah ok, that was cool".
- lubutu 14y ago
  It very much depends on what you want to do. But yes, you can certainly do things with Plan 9. Ruling out Plan 9 because it does run a certain language, or doesn't run Postgres, is like ruling out Linux because it can't run Microsoft Office. It is intended for a different purpose. Also note that Coraid use Plan 9 in a lot of their systems, to do real work (specifically SANs). Edit: Also, Plan 9 has HTTP servers, CIFS support, central authentication (factotum), etc. I suggest you Google them.
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    I gave a list of things I want to do. The typical server stuff 99% of unix-like systems are used for. I am not ruling out plan 9, I am asking what it can be used for. Why do people keep insisting on deliberately misrepresenting a question as a criticism? I know plan 9 has factotum, but "google it" sure doesn't help me find a way to use it to authenticate windows clients. Or authenticate anything other than plan 9 for that matter. Aquarela doesn't even claim to work, and it is actually much worse in practice than it claims to be. And it can't be part of a domain can it? I'm not trying to be critical here, but when I ask "what can I actually do with plan 9?" I am genuinely interested in a serious answer. Stuff like "well there's an unsupported kinda buggy thing that doesn't actually do what you need anyways" is just a less honest way of saying "you can't use it for anything".
    - tedunangst 14y ago
      You can play with it. You can write little programs and compile them. You can poke around its everything is a file filesystem. Your question is like "what can I do with a slinkie?"