3 ms·

I've been hearing that was about to happen for, let's say, 30 years?

Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
3 days ago: "Google layoffs: Company fires entire Python team for 'cheaper labour'" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40202281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40202281
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  And that's caused by Google Unions being too strong I guess? Do you realize this example is actually hurting your argument a lot?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
    It actually does not.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      It does, as the rebuttal to your argument is that corporations will move jobs no matter if there are Unions or not and no matter if the unions are powerful or not, and your example illustrates just that. You can't win the rat race to lower wages.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
        Do you have any doubts that unionizing will greatly accelerate this natural process? The race to big wage can be honestly won with only one method: the company should extract more value from your work than it costs them to pay you, and more than it would extract from a cheaper replacement. If it is so, firing you hurts the company more than paying you a lot, and no sensible business will ever get rid of such an employee.
        littlestymaar 3y ago
        > Do you have any doubts that unionizing will greatly accelerate this natural process? Nope, quite the opposite actually: with strong unions a big company cannot move work piecemeal (as the Union would strike back to block that in a way that makes small moves unprofitable for the company) and moving the whole company at once is impractical so they are stuck. Without unions, the company can work at their own pace till the last employee. In a class war, like in all war, you either unite or perish divided. > The race to big wage can be honestly won with only one method That's a convoluted way to day it cannot be won. But the reality is that it can in fact be won, of collective action of citizens put enough pressure (through laws) on companies to prevent them from seeking profit at the expense of the society they live in. That's how it always work, and when there's no organized political action against big corps, the people are always losing. Unions and state intervention are how the US people (and Europeans too) reached prosperity after WWII, and there's no way around that. Laissez faire only make a handful of winners at the expense of everybody else.
        Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
        If you view the relationship between the employees and an employers through Marxist class war lens, then, as an employee, you should fully expect reciprocal reaction from employers. I prefer to view it as mutually beneficial cooperation. If my value to the employer is not as high as I think it should be, it is either a reason to readjust my expectations, improve my productivity or change the employer.
        littlestymaar 3y ago
        > If you view the relationship between the employees and an employers through Marxist class war lens, then, as an employee, you should fully expect reciprocal reaction from employers. The employers everywhere, everyday, have shown that it's exactly how they behave. In fact, my reaction is only the reciprocal reaction to theirs. “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” Warren Buffet > I prefer to view it as mutually beneficial cooperation. I can't stop you from believing in Santa Claus for sure, but for sure I'll still hope you grow up one day. > If my value to the employer is not as high as I think it should be, it is either a reason to readjust my expectations, improve my productivity You have been well formatted by propaganda, they can be proud of them indeed.

3 days ago: "Google layoffs: Company fires entire Python team for 'cheaper labour'" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40202281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40202281

littlestymaar 3y ago
And that's caused by Google Unions being too strong I guess? Do you realize this example is actually hurting your argument a lot?
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
  It actually does not.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    It does, as the rebuttal to your argument is that corporations will move jobs no matter if there are Unions or not and no matter if the unions are powerful or not, and your example illustrates just that. You can't win the rat race to lower wages.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
      Do you have any doubts that unionizing will greatly accelerate this natural process? The race to big wage can be honestly won with only one method: the company should extract more value from your work than it costs them to pay you, and more than it would extract from a cheaper replacement. If it is so, firing you hurts the company more than paying you a lot, and no sensible business will ever get rid of such an employee.
      - littlestymaar 3y ago
        > Do you have any doubts that unionizing will greatly accelerate this natural process? Nope, quite the opposite actually: with strong unions a big company cannot move work piecemeal (as the Union would strike back to block that in a way that makes small moves unprofitable for the company) and moving the whole company at once is impractical so they are stuck. Without unions, the company can work at their own pace till the last employee. In a class war, like in all war, you either unite or perish divided. > The race to big wage can be honestly won with only one method That's a convoluted way to day it cannot be won. But the reality is that it can in fact be won, of collective action of citizens put enough pressure (through laws) on companies to prevent them from seeking profit at the expense of the society they live in. That's how it always work, and when there's no organized political action against big corps, the people are always losing. Unions and state intervention are how the US people (and Europeans too) reached prosperity after WWII, and there's no way around that. Laissez faire only make a handful of winners at the expense of everybody else.
        Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
        If you view the relationship between the employees and an employers through Marxist class war lens, then, as an employee, you should fully expect reciprocal reaction from employers. I prefer to view it as mutually beneficial cooperation. If my value to the employer is not as high as I think it should be, it is either a reason to readjust my expectations, improve my productivity or change the employer.
        littlestymaar 3y ago
        > If you view the relationship between the employees and an employers through Marxist class war lens, then, as an employee, you should fully expect reciprocal reaction from employers. The employers everywhere, everyday, have shown that it's exactly how they behave. In fact, my reaction is only the reciprocal reaction to theirs. “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” Warren Buffet > I prefer to view it as mutually beneficial cooperation. I can't stop you from believing in Santa Claus for sure, but for sure I'll still hope you grow up one day. > If my value to the employer is not as high as I think it should be, it is either a reason to readjust my expectations, improve my productivity You have been well formatted by propaganda, they can be proud of them indeed.