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Any medium where you invite commentary from strangers on the internet is going to be full of ignorant commentary. If this is something that stresses you out, p

by lrvick 3y ago

Any medium where you invite commentary from strangers on the internet is going to be full of ignorant commentary. If this is something that stresses you out, probably best to disable comments from anyone you do not follow. Simple as that. I do not think this is a problem with the tool. I do think over-exposure to internet commentary is toxic. Like alcohol, it is a poison that is only fun if you are capable of moderation. Not everyone is, and that is okay. For me I was addicted to reading comments from viral nonsense I did online. Giving up LTE and carrying always-accessible always-online devices meant I can only access the Internet from fixed locations that I am only willing to spend a limited amount of time in. The internet does not follow me or summon me with notifications anymore. I visit the internet on my terms. For me, this made me much happier with my relationship to the internet. YMMV.

Yotsugi 3y ago
Regardless of commentary, it's free publicity. As for >Giving up LTE that's very heavily personality dependent, if I didn't want to be bothered by anyone I'd turn off my phone and leave it at home, limiting myself on other days where I do want to access internet from anywhere and be bothered by internet, it would be highly inconvenient for me.
alt227 3y ago
Fully agree. This person states how they have joined and left many social media networks over the last 30 years. They often quote the same reasons for leaving them (comment toxicity, it not being 'fun' anymore, etc). However they dont seem to have identifdied the common factor here, they they themselves dont like anonymous negative comments about their posts and content. As you have pointed out, there are tools and ways to mitigate this, primarily blocking replies from people you dont follow.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  Yeah it's an emotional skill to develop. But the person first needs to realize they are the pattern.
  - beardedwizard 3y ago
    This assumes an awful lot about a person and what they may or may not need to do. People don't have to learn to like anything, especially online commentary. This thread sounds like a bunch of men attempting to invalidate this woman's feelings.
    - CaptArmchair 3y ago
      I agree, moreover, this is what the author wrote: > All that aside, the problem isn’t just “bad comments”, because I’m a grown woman and can take critique. The biggest problem is that a portion of those folks take screenshots and share them with unsavory folks. Not a week goes by that I don’t get some nasty email from someone I blocked on Mastodon. Some of these have been threatening, and it’s gotten to the point where before I toot, I think “will someone threaten to kill me over this?” That’s not fun. There's a difference between strongly disagreeing with a post, toot, tweet, what-have-you and outright taking things way beyond what could be seen as proper conduct with respect for the human on the other end. The solution isn't to just accept that under the guise of emotional maturity. It's investing in proper governance and arbitrage, promoting shared values and morals, and providing enough affordances in digital tools that help affirm all of that.
      - alt227 3y ago
        Thats all lovely in principle, but in the real world humans with a veil of anonymity will always be rude, selfish and greedy. That will never change.
      - 6510 3y ago
        If you deal with 50 people one is always a tad strange. As the numbers grow the weirdest person gets progressively weirder. Around 100 k some say they want to kill or hurt you, around a million some definitely want to, at 100 million one is definitely going to try it. You can get there faster by having a unpopular opinions.
    - alt227 3y ago
      People are always going to be rude on the internet. It gives people a sense of anonymity which allows them to care less about the feelings of people they are communicating with. There are 3 options to dealing with this. 1. Never go on the internet. 2. Accept that people will be rude, and develop ways to ignore/deal with it rationally. 3. Complain about it, and expect something to change. Looks like the author is choosing option 3. Why are you bringing sex/gender into this? It has nothing to do with it.
michaelt 3y ago
> Any medium where you invite commentary from strangers on the internet is going to be full of ignorant commentary. [...] I do not think this is a problem with the tool. You think the design of this medium inherently attracts death threats (which the author mentions, and I assume you've generalised into 'ignorant comments') - but it's not a problem with the medium? To me it sounds like a medium that's giving undue weight to the voices of the deranged; well adjusted people do not threaten one another with murder.
- Almondsetat 3y ago
  Allowing any person to comment is the most freedom you can give people. If people are free to comment whatever they want and they choose to publish crap then that's just a commentary on human nature, not the tool.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    All scenarios where anyone can comment anything are not equal, though. F.ex. are anonymous comments allowed? To some degree the platform defines the content it generates.
    - lrvick 2y ago
      There exist no practical methods to prevent anonymous commentary on the internet. If you do not accept the potential of being in a car crash, don't get in a car. If you are not accept the potential of strangers saying mean things to you on the internet, don't talk to strangers on the internet. That is not victim blaming. It is threat modeling. We can opine about how nice it would be to live in a world where we could keep all dangerous drivers off the road and all mean people off the internet, but we won't see major changes here for another century, so I don't advise waiting on those to live your life.
- Yotsugi 3y ago
  Let's say I create another website that allows people to share things and other people to comment on those things, pray do tell how do I prevent ignorant comments? Should only people who have Mensa certification be allowed to comment? Does Mensa alone rule out all cases of error possible in human brain? Does any metric in fact? How about the other way, how does having 87IQ prove that this person cannot say something profound sometimes?
Retr0id 3y ago
> disable comments from anyone you do not follow A good chunk of what I publish online doesn't have a comment section at all, but the moment someone posts a link to HN (or reddit, or...), suddenly it does.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  You don't have to read it? If you hate reading comments AND you can't stop yourself from reading them, go see a therapist. I don't mean this blithely, it's a sign of unaddressed emotional issues, it's a fixable thing and nothing to be ashamed of. It's not "who you are", it's just "a bad behavioral habit".
  - b112 3y ago
    I'm not going to say you're wrong, but provide a differing perspective. Imagine that for no reason you can fathom, you hear that Bob claims <bad thing> about you. You don't know why, so you seek to find out, and you feel you should let people know that Bob isn't right! That's the sort of logic involved sometimes. Is it wrong? Well, likely in the world of "1 million strangers are reading and some are replying" it is. But it's perfectly sensible in a local community, to want to 'set the record straight'. And this peer-pressure derived desire to not be seen as a 'bad guy', is moderately important in a cohesive society. This desire to be seen by others in our community in a positive light, is just part of how we as animals, form a society. It's a "good thing", when locally derived. But yes, we need new ways to deal with this I guess.
    - catapart 3y ago
      You're very close to hitting the main point that people miss: Posting on the internet is a global audience and that means writing with a global audience in mind. It's a thousand times more taxing than a local audience because you lose all colloquialisms and points of common reference. It's more taxing than even writing for a newspaper because even in the worst case of national coverage, it's rare that an article author would have to consider the global perspective (though still required for certain types of news). This whole article is just the author chafing at WANTING to use social media like ne has a local audience, while being FORCED to use social media with a global audience in mind. I very much empathize, in the same way I empathize with product manual writers or software documentation authors. Having to come up with every way some dickhead is going to misunderstand you is a massive undertaking. And THEN you have to come up with all the ways that some dickhead will TRY to misunderstand you. To guard against all of them is impossible, so you just have to shore up as many sides as you can and take the criticism as it comes. That is what it means to write for a global audience, and its exhausting. So I don't blame anyone at all for saying "this isn't my job, fuck this." Personally, I just write how I want to write and let the chips fall where they may. I don't begrudge anyone for just not writing at all, and leaving all the chips alone. But I also don't find their intention to do so particularly worth description; especially not in long form. It's not like its a binary choice. When you have the spoons to troll any troll that comes at you, and engage earnestly with anyone who is trying to engage with you - no matter how misguided - then have at it! Make your posts and enjoy or muddle through as applies. And on days when you don't want to deal with it? Just shut the fuck up. Don't say anything. Don't reply to people. Don't engage at all. It's that "easy".
beowulfey 3y ago
I think there is an even simpler solution, and it's the one the author mentions... stop using that medium to post things.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- alt227 3y ago
  The problem is that the author readily admits that they have done this on every social media site they have joined since the 90s. At some point they have to realise that no matter the platform, if you put anything out the in the public domain you are going to attract negativity and wierdos.
  - beowulfey 3y ago
    I think that is actually the exact bit of self discovery they are describing in the article!
    - alt227 3y ago
      Thats what it looks like, but then you realise that the author has done this again and again and doesnt really seem to learn anything each time. https://vkc.sh/another-lady-left-twitter/ https://vkc.sh/another-lady-left-twitter/
vnuge 3y ago
This is a huge step I took a few years ago as well. My mobile phone is still a smart phone but It can only do dumb phone things + email which I keep quiet and check on a schedule. No notifications really of any kind. No real social media and I never receive notifications from any of them I have to schedule time to check on them. It has become quite freeing although I definitely miss the "euphoria" of that world if it makes sense, which is a sign of addiction I didn't realize till I opted out.

by lrvick 3y ago

Yotsugi 3y ago

Regardless of commentary, it's free publicity. As for >Giving up LTE that's very heavily personality dependent, if I didn't want to be bothered by anyone I'd turn off my phone and leave it at home, limiting myself on other days where I do want to access internet from anywhere and be bothered by internet, it would be highly inconvenient for me.

alt227 3y ago

Fully agree. This person states how they have joined and left many social media networks over the last 30 years. They often quote the same reasons for leaving them (comment toxicity, it not being 'fun' anymore, etc). However they dont seem to have identifdied the common factor here, they they themselves dont like anonymous negative comments about their posts and content. As you have pointed out, there are tools and ways to mitigate this, primarily blocking replies from people you dont follow.

VHRanger 3y ago
Yeah it's an emotional skill to develop. But the person first needs to realize they are the pattern.
- beardedwizard 3y ago
  This assumes an awful lot about a person and what they may or may not need to do. People don't have to learn to like anything, especially online commentary. This thread sounds like a bunch of men attempting to invalidate this woman's feelings.
  - CaptArmchair 3y ago
    I agree, moreover, this is what the author wrote: > All that aside, the problem isn’t just “bad comments”, because I’m a grown woman and can take critique. The biggest problem is that a portion of those folks take screenshots and share them with unsavory folks. Not a week goes by that I don’t get some nasty email from someone I blocked on Mastodon. Some of these have been threatening, and it’s gotten to the point where before I toot, I think “will someone threaten to kill me over this?” That’s not fun. There's a difference between strongly disagreeing with a post, toot, tweet, what-have-you and outright taking things way beyond what could be seen as proper conduct with respect for the human on the other end. The solution isn't to just accept that under the guise of emotional maturity. It's investing in proper governance and arbitrage, promoting shared values and morals, and providing enough affordances in digital tools that help affirm all of that.
    - alt227 3y ago
      Thats all lovely in principle, but in the real world humans with a veil of anonymity will always be rude, selfish and greedy. That will never change.
    - 6510 3y ago
      If you deal with 50 people one is always a tad strange. As the numbers grow the weirdest person gets progressively weirder. Around 100 k some say they want to kill or hurt you, around a million some definitely want to, at 100 million one is definitely going to try it. You can get there faster by having a unpopular opinions.
  - alt227 3y ago
    People are always going to be rude on the internet. It gives people a sense of anonymity which allows them to care less about the feelings of people they are communicating with. There are 3 options to dealing with this. 1. Never go on the internet. 2. Accept that people will be rude, and develop ways to ignore/deal with it rationally. 3. Complain about it, and expect something to change. Looks like the author is choosing option 3. Why are you bringing sex/gender into this? It has nothing to do with it.

michaelt 3y ago

> Any medium where you invite commentary from strangers on the internet is going to be full of ignorant commentary. [...] I do not think this is a problem with the tool. You think the design of this medium inherently attracts death threats (which the author mentions, and I assume you've generalised into 'ignorant comments') - but it's not a problem with the medium? To me it sounds like a medium that's giving undue weight to the voices of the deranged; well adjusted people do not threaten one another with murder.

Almondsetat 3y ago
Allowing any person to comment is the most freedom you can give people. If people are free to comment whatever they want and they choose to publish crap then that's just a commentary on human nature, not the tool.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  All scenarios where anyone can comment anything are not equal, though. F.ex. are anonymous comments allowed? To some degree the platform defines the content it generates.
  - lrvick 2y ago
    There exist no practical methods to prevent anonymous commentary on the internet. If you do not accept the potential of being in a car crash, don't get in a car. If you are not accept the potential of strangers saying mean things to you on the internet, don't talk to strangers on the internet. That is not victim blaming. It is threat modeling. We can opine about how nice it would be to live in a world where we could keep all dangerous drivers off the road and all mean people off the internet, but we won't see major changes here for another century, so I don't advise waiting on those to live your life.
Yotsugi 3y ago
Let's say I create another website that allows people to share things and other people to comment on those things, pray do tell how do I prevent ignorant comments? Should only people who have Mensa certification be allowed to comment? Does Mensa alone rule out all cases of error possible in human brain? Does any metric in fact? How about the other way, how does having 87IQ prove that this person cannot say something profound sometimes?

Retr0id 3y ago

> disable comments from anyone you do not follow A good chunk of what I publish online doesn't have a comment section at all, but the moment someone posts a link to HN (or reddit, or...), suddenly it does.

VHRanger 3y ago
You don't have to read it? If you hate reading comments AND you can't stop yourself from reading them, go see a therapist. I don't mean this blithely, it's a sign of unaddressed emotional issues, it's a fixable thing and nothing to be ashamed of. It's not "who you are", it's just "a bad behavioral habit".
- b112 3y ago
  I'm not going to say you're wrong, but provide a differing perspective. Imagine that for no reason you can fathom, you hear that Bob claims <bad thing> about you. You don't know why, so you seek to find out, and you feel you should let people know that Bob isn't right! That's the sort of logic involved sometimes. Is it wrong? Well, likely in the world of "1 million strangers are reading and some are replying" it is. But it's perfectly sensible in a local community, to want to 'set the record straight'. And this peer-pressure derived desire to not be seen as a 'bad guy', is moderately important in a cohesive society. This desire to be seen by others in our community in a positive light, is just part of how we as animals, form a society. It's a "good thing", when locally derived. But yes, we need new ways to deal with this I guess.
  - catapart 3y ago
    You're very close to hitting the main point that people miss: Posting on the internet is a global audience and that means writing with a global audience in mind. It's a thousand times more taxing than a local audience because you lose all colloquialisms and points of common reference. It's more taxing than even writing for a newspaper because even in the worst case of national coverage, it's rare that an article author would have to consider the global perspective (though still required for certain types of news). This whole article is just the author chafing at WANTING to use social media like ne has a local audience, while being FORCED to use social media with a global audience in mind. I very much empathize, in the same way I empathize with product manual writers or software documentation authors. Having to come up with every way some dickhead is going to misunderstand you is a massive undertaking. And THEN you have to come up with all the ways that some dickhead will TRY to misunderstand you. To guard against all of them is impossible, so you just have to shore up as many sides as you can and take the criticism as it comes. That is what it means to write for a global audience, and its exhausting. So I don't blame anyone at all for saying "this isn't my job, fuck this." Personally, I just write how I want to write and let the chips fall where they may. I don't begrudge anyone for just not writing at all, and leaving all the chips alone. But I also don't find their intention to do so particularly worth description; especially not in long form. It's not like its a binary choice. When you have the spoons to troll any troll that comes at you, and engage earnestly with anyone who is trying to engage with you - no matter how misguided - then have at it! Make your posts and enjoy or muddle through as applies. And on days when you don't want to deal with it? Just shut the fuck up. Don't say anything. Don't reply to people. Don't engage at all. It's that "easy".

beowulfey 3y ago

I think there is an even simpler solution, and it's the one the author mentions... stop using that medium to post things.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
alt227 3y ago
The problem is that the author readily admits that they have done this on every social media site they have joined since the 90s. At some point they have to realise that no matter the platform, if you put anything out the in the public domain you are going to attract negativity and wierdos.
- beowulfey 3y ago
  I think that is actually the exact bit of self discovery they are describing in the article!
  - alt227 3y ago
    Thats what it looks like, but then you realise that the author has done this again and again and doesnt really seem to learn anything each time. https://vkc.sh/another-lady-left-twitter/ https://vkc.sh/another-lady-left-twitter/

vnuge 3y ago

This is a huge step I took a few years ago as well. My mobile phone is still a smart phone but It can only do dumb phone things + email which I keep quiet and check on a schedule. No notifications really of any kind. No real social media and I never receive notifications from any of them I have to schedule time to check on them. It has become quite freeing although I definitely miss the "euphoria" of that world if it makes sense, which is a sign of addiction I didn't realize till I opted out.