5 ms·

There is a difference between just slashing the program and reneging on already approved internships. The latter is quite unprofessional.

repelsteeltje 2y ago
...But also quite common, unfortunately
- ffsm8 2y ago
  Really? Then why does it always end up making headlines whenever a company does so? It's certainly not unheard of, but saying it's common is severely overstating it
  - xboxnolifes 2y ago
    How do you know it always makes the news when it happens if you aren't aware of every time it happens?
  - whamlastxmas 2y ago
    It doesn’t. You’re experiencing confirmation bias
  - mkipper 2y ago
    I guess it depends on the headlines you're reading. You'll only see it on HN if it's a tech company, and you're probably correct in saying that it was incredibly uncommon over the last decade of incredible growth. But it's more common if you zoom out a bit and look at other industries that haven't been consistently booming. I went to university during an O&G downturn, and I had several friends who had accepted internship offers at oil companies which were cancelled at the last minute. There were even companies that suspended their co-op programs for students already working there. Students who had an 8 month internship arranged through the university were laid off in the middle of it and were left sitting on their hands since they weren't enrolled in any classes. But I probably couldn't find any news articles about it, since those same companies were also going through mass layoffs at the time and nobody really cared about some interns having a rough time.
  - repelsteeltje 2y ago
    I think to certain extent it comes down to panic and chaos in the HR department. A chunk of people are fired, others quit or move to new positions. Projects are cancelled. That has consequences for supervision of interns and would probably incur significant rescheduling and organizational overhead. So I see why something not considered "primary business, contributing to the bottom line" is simply cancelled. Not great, though.
throwawaysleep 2y ago
It seems almost standard practice really to include recent offers in layoffs. At one of my old employers, they laid off a guy a few days in who moved across the Atlantic for the job. Moved for the job and I doubt he even earned his airfare.
- fabian2k 2y ago
  I think internships are a different case compared to regular employement. Internships are time limited anyway, and the interns are likely less able to compensate the potential financial aspects of a short term cancellation.
  - oblio 2y ago
    Internships can be less impactful. Interns are young and frequently not attached to a place. Full time employees frequently have families, partners with their own jobs, kids in school, mortgages, uprooting them and kicking them out is a huge disaster for most people.
the_duke 2y ago
Musk just fired a complete business unit of 500 people (supercharger network), reportedly because the executive in charge didn't want to go along with layoff percentages. So...
- renegade-otter 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - eru 2y ago
    > Only in America can this petulant, narcissistic man-child make it this far. What makes you think so? I don't think the US is that special. Japan has lots of 'office heroics'. And eg Hong Kong is very business friendly in terms of hiring and firing.
    - rchaud 2y ago
      But in Musk's case, doing the heroics won't save you from the pink slip. As one 'hardcore' Twitter loyalist found out, after months of sleeping in the office and criticizing other employees for not grinding hard enough. https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/esther-crawford-twitter-exec-who-slept-in-office-overnight-is-fired/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/esther-crawford-twitter-exec-w...
    - renegade-otter 2y ago
      The US is special due to the unique absence of a safety net, compared to all other developed countries. Not only will you have almost no income (unemployment benefits are a joke), but you can lose everything once you lose your health insurance and have an accident/illness. People work extra-hard in order to not be in that bottom 10% that is going to be cut. I cannot speak for Japan as I know very little about their workaholic culture, but it seems more performative - just toil in the office after hours to look productive.
      - eru 2y ago
        > The US is special due to the unique absence of a safety net, compared to all other developed countries. Not only will you have almost no income (unemployment benefits are a joke), [...] My adopted home of Singapore is a lot more developed than the US, and we don't even have unemployment benefits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_we... tells me that in 2019 the US spent 18.7% of GDP on social welfare. That's behind the UK at 20.6%, and ahead of the Netherlands at 16.7% of GDP. I don't know what the US is spending those 18.7% of GDP on, but I find it strange to believe that there would be no safety net at all given the huge level of spending. (Also keep in mind that GDP per capita is higher in the US than in the UK or the Netherlands. France tops Wikipedia's list with 31.2% of GDP spent on social welfare. Given French GDP per capita of ~40k USD that adds up to ~12k USD per person per year. For the US we get ~76k USD * 18.7% = ~14k USD. That's more than the French spent.) Yet again, I suspect you think the US is more special than it actually is. (Though the US might be unique in having the highest absolute social welfare spending per capita. Not sure. I guess some of the petro states of the Middle East or perhaps Luxembourg might give God's Own Country a run for her money there?)

repelsteeltje 2y ago

...But also quite common, unfortunately

ffsm8 2y ago
Really? Then why does it always end up making headlines whenever a company does so? It's certainly not unheard of, but saying it's common is severely overstating it
- xboxnolifes 2y ago
  How do you know it always makes the news when it happens if you aren't aware of every time it happens?
- whamlastxmas 2y ago
  It doesn’t. You’re experiencing confirmation bias
- mkipper 2y ago
  I guess it depends on the headlines you're reading. You'll only see it on HN if it's a tech company, and you're probably correct in saying that it was incredibly uncommon over the last decade of incredible growth. But it's more common if you zoom out a bit and look at other industries that haven't been consistently booming. I went to university during an O&G downturn, and I had several friends who had accepted internship offers at oil companies which were cancelled at the last minute. There were even companies that suspended their co-op programs for students already working there. Students who had an 8 month internship arranged through the university were laid off in the middle of it and were left sitting on their hands since they weren't enrolled in any classes. But I probably couldn't find any news articles about it, since those same companies were also going through mass layoffs at the time and nobody really cared about some interns having a rough time.
- repelsteeltje 2y ago
  I think to certain extent it comes down to panic and chaos in the HR department. A chunk of people are fired, others quit or move to new positions. Projects are cancelled. That has consequences for supervision of interns and would probably incur significant rescheduling and organizational overhead. So I see why something not considered "primary business, contributing to the bottom line" is simply cancelled. Not great, though.

throwawaysleep 2y ago

It seems almost standard practice really to include recent offers in layoffs. At one of my old employers, they laid off a guy a few days in who moved across the Atlantic for the job. Moved for the job and I doubt he even earned his airfare.

fabian2k 2y ago
I think internships are a different case compared to regular employement. Internships are time limited anyway, and the interns are likely less able to compensate the potential financial aspects of a short term cancellation.
- oblio 2y ago
  Internships can be less impactful. Interns are young and frequently not attached to a place. Full time employees frequently have families, partners with their own jobs, kids in school, mortgages, uprooting them and kicking them out is a huge disaster for most people.

the_duke 2y ago

Musk just fired a complete business unit of 500 people (supercharger network), reportedly because the executive in charge didn't want to go along with layoff percentages. So...

renegade-otter 2y ago
[flagged]
- eru 2y ago
  > Only in America can this petulant, narcissistic man-child make it this far. What makes you think so? I don't think the US is that special. Japan has lots of 'office heroics'. And eg Hong Kong is very business friendly in terms of hiring and firing.
  - rchaud 2y ago
    But in Musk's case, doing the heroics won't save you from the pink slip. As one 'hardcore' Twitter loyalist found out, after months of sleeping in the office and criticizing other employees for not grinding hard enough. https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/esther-crawford-twitter-exec-who-slept-in-office-overnight-is-fired/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/27/esther-crawford-twitter-exec-w...
  - renegade-otter 2y ago
    The US is special due to the unique absence of a safety net, compared to all other developed countries. Not only will you have almost no income (unemployment benefits are a joke), but you can lose everything once you lose your health insurance and have an accident/illness. People work extra-hard in order to not be in that bottom 10% that is going to be cut. I cannot speak for Japan as I know very little about their workaholic culture, but it seems more performative - just toil in the office after hours to look productive.
    - eru 2y ago
      > The US is special due to the unique absence of a safety net, compared to all other developed countries. Not only will you have almost no income (unemployment benefits are a joke), [...] My adopted home of Singapore is a lot more developed than the US, and we don't even have unemployment benefits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_we... tells me that in 2019 the US spent 18.7% of GDP on social welfare. That's behind the UK at 20.6%, and ahead of the Netherlands at 16.7% of GDP. I don't know what the US is spending those 18.7% of GDP on, but I find it strange to believe that there would be no safety net at all given the huge level of spending. (Also keep in mind that GDP per capita is higher in the US than in the UK or the Netherlands. France tops Wikipedia's list with 31.2% of GDP spent on social welfare. Given French GDP per capita of ~40k USD that adds up to ~12k USD per person per year. For the US we get ~76k USD * 18.7% = ~14k USD. That's more than the French spent.) Yet again, I suspect you think the US is more special than it actually is. (Though the US might be unique in having the highest absolute social welfare spending per capita. Not sure. I guess some of the petro states of the Middle East or perhaps Luxembourg might give God's Own Country a run for her money there?)