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Some Tesla employees have been calling Musk a "pigeon CEO" because "he comes in, shits all over us, and then leaves": https://electrek.co/2024/04/22/elon-musk-

Some Tesla employees have been calling Musk a "pigeon CEO" because "he comes in, shits all over us, and then leaves": https://electrek.co/2024/04/22/elon-musk-pigeon-ceo-former-tesla-manager/ https://electrek.co/2024/04/22/elon-musk-pigeon-ceo-former-t...

slillibri 3y ago
See also Seagull Management - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management
Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
[flagged]
- unglaublich 3y ago
  If that's your take, I understand your confusion. Are you supposed to leave your country when you're not happy, or should you vote and try to change it? Sometimes it's better to leave, sometimes it's better to stay.
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    1. You typically can't leave your country. Hardly anyone offers open immigration, especially not to blue collar workers. 2. Companies don't care about employees and almost never offer raises. It's not 1920. Even if you love your company, it's almost always best to be looking to make sure you're getting the pay that you deserve. At a company you don't even like, I think it's a disservice to your career. 3. Staying promotes bad behavior as corporations will see that they can under pay you, behave poorly, and not suffer the cost of turnover. Overall, staying seems like a loss for everyone.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
    Not a valid comparison. People are not free to change their countries without an enormous effort almost anywhere in the world. Changing jobs is easy.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      To a degree, both are easy and both are hard. I've moved country. Had to learn German as part of that[0]. Jobs… well, other Space companies do exist, but the old space companies have a reputation for being pork barrel operations. Other car companies exist, I don't know enough about them to make a judgement call there. [0] Fun fact: German is so hard that Germans have a saying which translates as "German is hard".
      - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
        > I've moved country. You are an extremely privileged citizen of a first-world country. Try doing it as a Russian / Lebanon / Afghan, then we'll have something to talk about.
        ben_w 3y ago
        Indeed I am. But I suspect the "can code" privilege beats the "passport" privilege. A previous employer was about 50 people, of whom about 5 were from Germany; from memory, the nationalities of the rest, excluding those from G7 states, included Nigeria, Egypt, Syria, both Israel and Palestine, Iran, both Russia and Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Turkey, both India and Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and South Korea. A British ex girlfriend of mine thought I was ridiculously privileged for having had a Commodore 64 when I was a kid; the (also British) boyfriend before her, got into ham radio because he came from a household too poor for a telephone.
        Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
        > But I suspect the "can code" privilege beats the "passport" privilege. It doesn't and it's not even close. Millions of Russians have left the country in protest of Putin's little victorious war. Many of them are very adept at coding, and no, almost all of them face severe problems of every kind (banking, visas, residency, air flights, etc) because of the wrong color of their passports. And for people from non-European countries it is even worse.
- menzoic 3y ago
  Or complain so that things can change
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    Looks to be going the other way despite the complaints. I'm pretty sure that money makes all the decisions. Investors don't really care what Musk's political stance is. And they care even less if he's annoying to social media consumers, unless they represent a target market larger than the one they already have.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  Why shouldn't someone stay and try to make things better? Why do you only see capituation or quitting as options?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
    Complaining in press about CEO is unlikely to make anything better. Also, said CEO is wildly successful by any sensible business metric, so this boils down to pleasing the crowd of people who are unhappy with CEOs political stance.
- vincnetas 3y ago
  Does Elon quit when he does not like things as they are?
- Propelloni 3y ago
  So you are a quitter? That's fine, but obviously that's just one choice of the options available: Exit, Voice, and Loyalty. Albert Hirschman wrote a nice book about it. I can recommend it.
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  Not everyone has a daddy who owns slaves who can give them hundreds of millions to start their companies btw

slillibri 3y ago

See also Seagull Management - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management

Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago

[flagged]

unglaublich 3y ago
If that's your take, I understand your confusion. Are you supposed to leave your country when you're not happy, or should you vote and try to change it? Sometimes it's better to leave, sometimes it's better to stay.
- trimethylpurine 3y ago
  1. You typically can't leave your country. Hardly anyone offers open immigration, especially not to blue collar workers. 2. Companies don't care about employees and almost never offer raises. It's not 1920. Even if you love your company, it's almost always best to be looking to make sure you're getting the pay that you deserve. At a company you don't even like, I think it's a disservice to your career. 3. Staying promotes bad behavior as corporations will see that they can under pay you, behave poorly, and not suffer the cost of turnover. Overall, staying seems like a loss for everyone.
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
  Not a valid comparison. People are not free to change their countries without an enormous effort almost anywhere in the world. Changing jobs is easy.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    To a degree, both are easy and both are hard. I've moved country. Had to learn German as part of that[0]. Jobs… well, other Space companies do exist, but the old space companies have a reputation for being pork barrel operations. Other car companies exist, I don't know enough about them to make a judgement call there. [0] Fun fact: German is so hard that Germans have a saying which translates as "German is hard".
    - Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
      > I've moved country. You are an extremely privileged citizen of a first-world country. Try doing it as a Russian / Lebanon / Afghan, then we'll have something to talk about.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        Indeed I am. But I suspect the "can code" privilege beats the "passport" privilege. A previous employer was about 50 people, of whom about 5 were from Germany; from memory, the nationalities of the rest, excluding those from G7 states, included Nigeria, Egypt, Syria, both Israel and Palestine, Iran, both Russia and Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Turkey, both India and Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and South Korea. A British ex girlfriend of mine thought I was ridiculously privileged for having had a Commodore 64 when I was a kid; the (also British) boyfriend before her, got into ham radio because he came from a household too poor for a telephone.
        Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
        > But I suspect the "can code" privilege beats the "passport" privilege. It doesn't and it's not even close. Millions of Russians have left the country in protest of Putin's little victorious war. Many of them are very adept at coding, and no, almost all of them face severe problems of every kind (banking, visas, residency, air flights, etc) because of the wrong color of their passports. And for people from non-European countries it is even worse.
menzoic 3y ago
Or complain so that things can change
- trimethylpurine 3y ago
  Looks to be going the other way despite the complaints. I'm pretty sure that money makes all the decisions. Investors don't really care what Musk's political stance is. And they care even less if he's annoying to social media consumers, unless they represent a target market larger than the one they already have.
dukeyukey 3y ago
Why shouldn't someone stay and try to make things better? Why do you only see capituation or quitting as options?
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
  Complaining in press about CEO is unlikely to make anything better. Also, said CEO is wildly successful by any sensible business metric, so this boils down to pleasing the crowd of people who are unhappy with CEOs political stance.
vincnetas 3y ago
Does Elon quit when he does not like things as they are?
Propelloni 3y ago
So you are a quitter? That's fine, but obviously that's just one choice of the options available: Exit, Voice, and Loyalty. Albert Hirschman wrote a nice book about it. I can recommend it.
lnxg33k1 3y ago
Not everyone has a daddy who owns slaves who can give them hundreds of millions to start their companies btw