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00Key a 75% Keyboard
- BossingAround 2y agoPersonally, I found the perfect keyboard in Ergodox [0][1]. Ortholinear, split, programmable (and open-source) keyboard with hot-swappable switches. I've had my Ergodox EZ [2] for ~7 years now. The biggest problem that happened was that some of the switches started malfunctioning - fixing which was a matter of literally 5 minutes. I don't think I would want to go back to non-split, non-ortholinear keyboards nowadays. 00Key looks cool though, that's for sure! :) [0] https://github.com/Ergodox-io https://github.com/Ergodox-io [1] https://www.ergodox.io/ https://www.ergodox.io/ [2] https://ergodox-ez.com/ https://ergodox-ez.com/
- signalloss 2y agoHad ergodox for 3 years, moved to moonlander using their base mounts to float on gas arms. Huge fan
- signalloss 2y agoI will add having very wide shoulders makes a split that much more ergonomic for someone of similar body type. Cool project btw
- etrautmann 2y agoWhat are gas arms? Any pics of this?
- WesleyLivesay 2y agoI had exactly the same experience. After using the Ergodox since around 2020 it is hard to see going back to a non-split keyboard. It helps that I also swapped to a trackball at the same time and I find the ergo of having a trackball between a split keyboard to be excellent. Also, having the backspace key as the "home" key for my left thumb has greatly increased my typing speed....I make a lot of mistakes.
- neves 2y agothat you make a lot of mistakes isn't a good compliment for a keyboard :-)
- WesleyLivesay 2y agoI have bad news about every keyboard I have ever used....
- yttrium 2y agoWhich trackball do you use?
- WesleyLivesay 2y agoLogitech MX Ergo.
- CodeWriter23 2y agoI always feel the first thing I would do with a split keyboard is 3D print a baseplate to keep the two halves aligned. Which.might.just.work.
- luqtas 2y agogood move... but some rubber like pad at the table make them 99,9% fixed! and dust marks your ideal position that MAY is changed/adjusted slightly after some time spend with the keyboard
- CodeWriter23 2y agoThanks for the input, appreciated!
- zubairshaik 2y ago> I don't think I would want to go back to non-split, non-ortholinear keyboards nowadays. Same for me but even further, after using the Glove80[0] I don't want to go back to non-colstag, non-keywell keyboards. [0] https://www.moergo.com/pages/glove80-ergonomic-keyboard-design-journey-1 https://www.moergo.com/pages/glove80-ergonomic-keyboard-desi...
- ivanjermakov 2y agoI'm afraid to try keywell keyboards since that would drastically limit layout options. For a split column-stagger kb I can just order a PCB, MCUs, switches, keycaps and after minor soldering it's ready to go. With concave boards you need a case of non-trivial design.
- lawn 2y agoThe problem with Ergodox (and Moonlander) are the horrific thumb cluster that only makes sense if you have very large hands/fingers.
- CarVac 2y agoMy favorite is Mitosis, which has large thumb clusters very close to the alphas.
- gamepsys 2y agoI personally find the two large buttons in the thumb clusters to be easy to access. I don't think the entire thumb cluster is designed to be used commonly while touch typing. There are plenty of pinky reachable buttons you can map needed keys to.
- sxldier 2y agoI also had similar concerns. Their voyager keyboard should solve that concern and I’m strongly considering using it. I’ve had their Planck EZ for maybe 2 years now (on Dvorak) and later got their Moonlander but I think it was too much for me and went back to the Planck shortly after. Ben Vallack has a good video on the voyager[^0] and many other setups and workflows [0]: https://youtu.be/dg2TT1OJlQs?si=vNM6fOK7ua9KCIky https://youtu.be/dg2TT1OJlQs?si=vNM6fOK7ua9KCIky
- digging 2y agoThanks for this! My current mechanical keyboard is great, but doesn't have an ergonomic layout. I tried a different split mechanical keyboard once and it was way too small for my hands, and didn't have built-in tenting, so it ended up being horrible for me. This appears to be a much better option & I'm going to check it out now. And for those reading this thread, if you need a mouse, I've been extremely satisfied with Evoluent's vertical mouse[0]. Unlike most mouse manufacturers, they're very serious about selling what customers actually need - durable hardware, multiple sizes options for every model, just enough extra buttons, and a wired/wireless option for each model. Can't possibly recommend them enough - I went through 3 other vertical mice and absolutely hated all of them (all of them too small, and shockingly Anker's is very low quality; but really I don't trust any with a cheap BT connector). [0] https://evoluent.com https://evoluent.com
- rgoulter 2y agoFor pointing devices.. I've really loved using a trackball. I got an Elecom Huge.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoNeat but no good place for arrow keys.
- rgoulter 2y agoTypically with split keyboards like this, you'd put the arrow keys on home row (or ijkl or esdf etc.), and access the arrow keys by holding a Fn key. On a traditional keyboard, you can't access the arrow keys with your hands rested on home row. You have to move your hands to reach those keys. Holding a Fn key brings more of the keyboard's functionality to within easy reach of the hands, at the cost that the keyboard is somewhat more complicated to use.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoGood summary. I wouldn't buy one without obvious arrow keys however.
- sbeckeriv 2y agoI backed ergodox-ez on indiegogo in 2016. I moved to the moonlander mostly for the built in wrist pads. support has been amazing. I just got a replacement for a cracked piece of plastic that I can repair myself. https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/teardown https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/teardown The thing I like most is the split and I have customized the layout to my working style. I really should learn to use layers or try some of the "hacks" https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/printables https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/printables.
- dustincoates 2y agoI came really close to buying the Moonlander, but I couldn't get over the fact that they limit macro length because otherwise, they claim, people would put their password in. I'm not going to, but I have lots of other reasons for long macro outputs.
- mmh0000 2y agoI really do not like these compressed baby keyboards that are missing essential keys. My perfect keyboard would be something like a 150% with standard full layout but then adding in a bunch of programmable macro keys, I want more than F12! I want F1 through F36. Also a built in coffee grinder, water heater, and there should be a fan under the keys to keep my hands cool. Okay, ignore those last three.
- VyseofArcadia 2y agoI've been wondering for a while now why these fractional keyboards are so popular. It's some sort of trendy faux-minimalism that I've never been able to wrap my head around.
- karlshea 2y ago75% is basically everything except the numpad, so if one isn't a big numpad user it's nice to have your mouse a bit closer.
- GuB-42 2y ago75% is not exactly this. It mangles the home cluster (pgup, pgdn, home, end, insert, del), often missing "insert" entirely. It also relocates the arrow keys slightly. If you just want a keyboard without a numpad, it is called TenKeyLess (TKL) or 80%. For me, it matters. I use the home cluster a lot, including the insert key (for copy and pasting), and because I use many different keyboards (for work, etc...), muscle memory is important, and full size is the most common. So when using a compact keyboard, I like having the keys in the same place more than saving 2 columns. But to each his own, especially with keyboards.
- karlshea 2y agoMy comment was more to push back on the silly assertion that the only reason someone would like a fractional board is "trendy faux-minimalism". I have a TKL on my PC and other than Insert (which I can't remember ever pressing on purpose in the last 15 years) the only other keys a 75% is missing are the cluster with print screen/scroll lock/break. I'd be annoyed by a 75% if I used Insert for copy/paste etc and switched keyboards all the time, but I'm mostly on Mac so I'm used to Cmd+arrows instead of Home/End and Cmd+C/X/V. But it does have the extra strip on the right for some of those keys I do use, like Del. And now I can now hit every key on the board without really moving my hands much, including those that are normally on the Home cluster. I could even do with a 65% but I don't want to have to switch layers to hit Esc, and actually do use the function keys for an IDE.
- ddalcino 2y agoNicely done! I thought I was cool when I soldered my kit keyboard from KBDFans; now I gotta step up my game! Do you have a .GIF for that rotating rainbow effect, or a sound test?
- luke-stanley 2y agoThis is cool but I wish I could just have a 75% portable Bluetooth keyboard. I can't justify buying a foldable phone with a million screens but would love a Psion like keyboard with 4 and a half almost full size rows that I can slide out from below my phone with no folding and just use directly without getting in the way of my rear camera. Has anyone seen anything like that? I am really happy with laptop scissor switch rubber dome keyboard profiles, I loved the Psion but I just want a Bluetooth keyboard. Sorry it's not directly related!
- criddell 2y agoI might be wrong, but in this case I think the 75% refers to the layout, not the physical size of the keys. https://www.keyboard.university/100-courses/keyboard-sizes-layouts-gdeby https://www.keyboard.university/100-courses/keyboard-sizes-l...
- ZeWaka 2y agoIt's a percentage of the 'total number of keys,' insofar that a 'normal' keyboard is a 100% keyboard.
- luke-stanley 2y agoOh okay, I guess I want 65% then in terms of the keys it has! Thanks.
- criddell 2y agoThose exist! I googled 65% bluetooth keyboard and this is the first result: https://www.cherryamericas.com/mx-lp-2-1-compact-wireless https://www.cherryamericas.com/mx-lp-2-1-compact-wireless No idea if it's any good or not. In my experience, only Logitech seems to have figured out decent battery life in wireless keyboards. Even with the lighting effects turned off, most mechanical keyboards have terrible battery life (often less than a week). My gripe is that there are lots and lots of great small keyboards out there being made by hobbyists and small companies, but none of them offer scissor switch options! I'd really like something closer to a modern Apple laptop keyboard. I've been using a Lenovo Trackpoint II which is close, but I don't really like it.
- evnix 2y agoGood example of form over function. This is nice if you want to impress your YouTube fan followers or get a few likes for when you post on Reddit or other social media. Split keyboards should be your go to if you are spending considerable time on your computer. A lot of back issues, shoulder pains and RSI issues just disappeared after making the switch.
- TheCapn 2y agoI could never get used to ergonomic keyboards. I actually spend a considerable amount of my day typing single handed across the entire QWERTY so I don't have to remove my hand from the mouse. I developed the habit working on far too many apps with bad/missing keyboard shortcuts or broken tab ordering. For me I wanted a smaller keyboard, but one that still included the numpad and ended up with this custom build: https://i.imgur.com/H2sddCI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/H2sddCI.jpg I use a fullsize board at work, but at home I prefer the slightly smaller footprint that I got in that design.
- LanternLight83 2y agoI get that, I've practiced with my ergo board for like a year and still don't use it exclusively bc of one-handing stuff (though learning a new layout at the same time cert. didn't help). There's a layout based on multi-key chords called Taipo that has this really interesting "reversable" property, in that each half is a mirrored copy of the other, so you can type any letter (or eg. tab or return) with either hand. I think that's super cool, but don't think chording is for me, so I'm trying to imagine what a compromise might look like.
- lilouartz 2y agoWhat's a good way to contact you? I have a product question regarding one of the comments you've made in 2022. I added my email to my profile if you could please email me.
- kelvie 2y agoI still wonder why there isn't a DIY option that builds in a touchpad or a usable trackball. It's great for bed / home theatre PC (HTPC) use, and some of us are just used to it There are existing keyboards out there, like the logitech K-something for HTPCs, or then niche (and expensive) options that you need to call HP or Lenovo to order, but I'm very close to just buying the bottom of the framework laptop and building one myself, although the touchpad on the Framework is medium good, at best (as are most touchpads that aren't from big A)
- aeurielesn 2y agoNice! As someone that recently started on this hobby, I love my 75% custom mechanical keyboard. One thing though, custom firmwares aren't popular on this hobby. Right now, QMK/VIA support are pretty much a must on the community.
- densh 2y agoIt’s really hard to get excited about a keyboard with non-split space bar in 2024, and firmware other than qmk/zmk.
- gwbas1c 2y agoI really want a portable full size keyboard: IE, a full size keyboard that comes with a protective case so it's easier to put in a bag. Perhaps the keyboard can break into two pieces so it's easier to fit in a smaller bag?
- gamepsys 2y agoIt's probably simplest to just build a case for your favorite keyboard.
- imglorp 2y agoIf OP is reading, instead of placing 80 individual resistors you can use SIP network arrays to reduce the part count (they come in bussed or isolated). $.45 each. Eg: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/resistor-networks-arrays/50?s=N4IgjCBcpgbFoDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbRACYBOAFgA5Z4BdAgBwBcoQBlNgJwEsAdgHMQAXwlA https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/resistor-networks...
- apfsx 2y agoThe perfect keyboard for me has been the Kinesis Freestyle Pro. Split keyboard with all the keys you would want plus 10 macro keys on the left side you can map to anything. There is absolutely no way I could go back to using any other keyboard after using this for a few years now. Shoulder and wrist pain completely gone.