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counter-counterpoint: you already have a different web, it's called Geminispace[0]. Brutally simple by design, text and hypertext only, built on a protocol froz

by krapp 3y ago

counter-counterpoint: you already have a different web, it's called Geminispace[0]. Brutally simple by design, text and hypertext only, built on a protocol frozen in amber. Antimodern, antiprogress, anticapitalist, antinormal. It will never grow beyond niche because it's too simple to be useful to the mainstream. Hell, it's too simple to be useful to most of Hacker News, which is saying something. [0]https://geminiprotocol.net/ https://geminiprotocol.net/

Turing_Machine 3y ago
If it's gonna focus on text only, that tiny low-contrast default sans font is a terrible, terrible choice. After reading a few pages of that, your readers will all be in bed with eyestrain.
- zzo38computer 3y ago
  Then you can change the font (and colours). A Gemini file does not specify fonts/colours, so it is possible for the user to specify them (according to the client software being used).
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    Well, yeah, obviously. That's not the point. That won't make the linked site itself any more legible. I was interested enough to click through to the second page, but stopped reading after a few paragraphs. It's been a long day and my eyeballs are already pretty toasted. If they want people to use (or even consider) their stuff, they need to make it not look like ass. Edit: Consider the non-technical reader who stumbles across this. Likely reaction: "Sounds interesting, but man, that looks like ass."
    - 082349872349872 3y ago
      > Consider the non-technical reader who stumbles across this. My experience of geminispace was that it was far less technical (more LJ-like) than I had been expecting. Looking like ass can be advantageous, if it gets rid of the mundanes.
zzo38computer 3y ago
> It will never grow beyond niche because it's too simple to be useful to the mainstream. Hell, it's too simple to be useful to most of Hacker News Different protocols, file formats, programming languages, etc can be useful for different things. If you are only writing such text that is just a simple text rather than all of the fancy stuff like HTML, CSS, etc, then it will work very well OK. Of course, many people (including myself) do have criticisms, e.g. some people dislike mandatory TLS. (That is (one reason) why I made up my own (which also has many other differences from Gemini (and from WWW)), but that doesn't mean that Gemini cannot be used.) Note that simple explanations are possible, e.g: Use TLS with port 1965; send the full URL and then carriage return and line feed. (In this case, the URL is "gemini://geminiprotocol.net/")
autoexec 3y ago
Okay, I'm interested. I'm not convinced Gemini won't suffer the same fate as everything else if it really catches on, but I am interested and it might be a lot of fun while it lasts. My initial thoughts are that it seems just as vulnerable to the problem of bots. Popular search engines and aggregators could suffer the same issues as their new web counterparts (even leading to SEO for Geminispace), it still needs certificates, and it's a little concerning that the spec isn't finalized yet, and the whole thing is in the hands of a single person (Solderpunk, I didn't see a real name) who could sell out if Greed gets to him, but overall I like the idea of it.

by krapp 3y ago

Turing_Machine 3y ago

If it's gonna focus on text only, that tiny low-contrast default sans font is a terrible, terrible choice. After reading a few pages of that, your readers will all be in bed with eyestrain.

zzo38computer 3y ago
Then you can change the font (and colours). A Gemini file does not specify fonts/colours, so it is possible for the user to specify them (according to the client software being used).
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  Well, yeah, obviously. That's not the point. That won't make the linked site itself any more legible. I was interested enough to click through to the second page, but stopped reading after a few paragraphs. It's been a long day and my eyeballs are already pretty toasted. If they want people to use (or even consider) their stuff, they need to make it not look like ass. Edit: Consider the non-technical reader who stumbles across this. Likely reaction: "Sounds interesting, but man, that looks like ass."
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    > Consider the non-technical reader who stumbles across this. My experience of geminispace was that it was far less technical (more LJ-like) than I had been expecting. Looking like ass can be advantageous, if it gets rid of the mundanes.

zzo38computer 3y ago

> It will never grow beyond niche because it's too simple to be useful to the mainstream. Hell, it's too simple to be useful to most of Hacker News Different protocols, file formats, programming languages, etc can be useful for different things. If you are only writing such text that is just a simple text rather than all of the fancy stuff like HTML, CSS, etc, then it will work very well OK. Of course, many people (including myself) do have criticisms, e.g. some people dislike mandatory TLS. (That is (one reason) why I made up my own (which also has many other differences from Gemini (and from WWW)), but that doesn't mean that Gemini cannot be used.) Note that simple explanations are possible, e.g: Use TLS with port 1965; send the full URL and then carriage return and line feed. (In this case, the URL is "gemini://geminiprotocol.net/")

autoexec 3y ago

Okay, I'm interested. I'm not convinced Gemini won't suffer the same fate as everything else if it really catches on, but I am interested and it might be a lot of fun while it lasts. My initial thoughts are that it seems just as vulnerable to the problem of bots. Popular search engines and aggregators could suffer the same issues as their new web counterparts (even leading to SEO for Geminispace), it still needs certificates, and it's a little concerning that the spec isn't finalized yet, and the whole thing is in the hands of a single person (Solderpunk, I didn't see a real name) who could sell out if Greed gets to him, but overall I like the idea of it.