5 ms·

The problem is they are delusional and don't know the history/complexity in the situation. To be clear: I'm 100% pro Palestinian state and have been since the 8

The problem is they are delusional and don't know the history/complexity in the situation. To be clear: I'm 100% pro Palestinian state and have been since the 80s (Israeli). Still am. Hamas is the main reason a Palestinian state doesn't exist. It's the reason the far right rose in Israel. As long as it exists the cycle of death would continue. Hamas are currently delaying the ceasefire offer that was on the table because of these protests.

runarberg 2y ago
That ceasefire offer is for 40 days, not a permanent one, like they—as well as the UN—have been asking for. And Netanyahu is on record stating that he will invade Rafah regardless of whether this ceasefire offer is signed or not. You can’t really blame them for being skeptical here.
- invalidname 2y ago
  Ceasfires have a tendency to extend. If the hostages are returned Netanyahu won't be able to invade Rafah and this round will effectively be over. Forces will be withdrawn and it would be too much to restart the war effort.
  - candiodari 2y ago
    Plus, if Hamas actually does release the hostages, every country, including the US, would demand Israel back off. I don't think there's any doubt on that by anyone, not even Hamas (who seem pretty apt at predicting responses of the West in any case). Hamas wants war. That's what they're getting paid for. Gaza is not really economically viable anyway, so this is the only way they're getting paid. Billions for a constant stream of dead Palestinians.
    - runarberg 2y ago
      If Hamas releases the hostages, we have no idea what would happen. Israel has shown it self to be very unpredictable and unreliable in following expectations from the international community, and the USA has shown it self to have an unconditional backing of whatever Israel does. I absolutely think that Hamas should release the hostages, immediately and unconditionally, but at the same time we have to be realistic that it is probably not going to happen without a ceasefire, and the non-civilian hostages are probably not going to be released without a permanent ceasefire and a prisoner swap. Regardless of whether Hamas wants continued war or not (which I kind of doubt as most Hamas members have civilian family members victims of the ongoing genocide) we have to realize that Israel is the main actor here and is committing a genocide. Israel, with a backing of the USA, has consistently refused ceasefires in the past, even when Hamas has shown in the past that they do release hostages during a ceasefire. I think the January ceasefire negotiations are very telling of how things usually go. Israel wants to continue the genocide and Hamas wants to keep the hostages, there is some settlements and concessions made, weeks go by, Hamas attends negotiations, Israel boycotts them, US state department blames Hamas for not wanting the deal, Hamas declares they want the deal, Netanyahu keeps insisting the war will continue regardless of deal, UN says they should make the deal, the deal falls apart, the US state department blames Hamas, the UN votes at the Security Council for a ceasefire resolution, the US veto’s it. In an environment like this, there is no way Hamas will release the hostages. Israel has to be the one that takes the first step, regardless of how unfair it may seem to you.
      - candiodari 2y ago
        "Israel is the main actor here" - are you insane? I mean this post is just one long monologue blaming Jews for not letting Palestinians kill them.
      - invalidname 2y ago
        This is a very creative re-imagining of reality. Israel has always respected ceasefires. The last time one was broken was in 2014 where Hamas killed Israeli soldiers during a ceasefire. The US cut off Israel multiple times including in the 80s. If you go back further you can find a point in time where the UK and US had a plot to bomb Israel. How ceasefires work is through a promise of hostage releases. E.g. on the last ceasefire we had we were promised all the women and children. Hamas didn't deliver on all of them and frequently delayed release to test the patience of Israel. They are a suicidal, religious cult. > which I kind of doubt as most Hamas members have civilian family members victims of the ongoing genocide First, there's no genocide. Second. The head of Hamas posted a photo of him delivering the news of his sons death in the conflict to his wife. They were both smiling at the news in the photo. Hamas are not western people with western sensibilities and you should stop thinking of them in these terms. They consider every death that's a part of Jihad (including children, including direct family) to be a blessing. That's insane. They purposefully started this conflict and are purposefully extending it in order to manipulate American sentiment. They understand that the west is soft of heart, that it's easy to manipulate us.
        runarberg 2y ago
        I’m sorry keep returning to this, but seeing today’s headlines in Haaretz kind of proofs my point (or at least you should be able to understand my point of view from it): > Israel-Hamas Hostage Negotiations Hit Critical Juncture as Netanyahu's Statement Jeopardizes Progress https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/hostage-negotiations-hit-critical-juncture-as-netanyahus-statement-jeopardizes-progress/0000018f-4459-d0b5-a59f-75ddfad70000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... And: > Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... This is very similar to how the failed Qatar brokered ceasefire deal turned out in January/February [1]. It was also a temporary ceasefire with extension clauses, and all but ready to be signed and put into effect, meanwhile Netanyahu kept trying to vandalize it with statements of how Israel would not comply. And despite all that Hamas agreed to it, and it looked like it would come into effect, but at the last moment Israel withdrew and the genocide continued. It may be true that Hamas is a bad actor in these negotiations, and it may be that they bear a ton of fault for there not being a ceasefire already. But as today’s headlines prove, Israel’s responsibility is at least as much. 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663

runarberg 2y ago

That ceasefire offer is for 40 days, not a permanent one, like they—as well as the UN—have been asking for. And Netanyahu is on record stating that he will invade Rafah regardless of whether this ceasefire offer is signed or not. You can’t really blame them for being skeptical here.

invalidname 2y ago
Ceasfires have a tendency to extend. If the hostages are returned Netanyahu won't be able to invade Rafah and this round will effectively be over. Forces will be withdrawn and it would be too much to restart the war effort.
- candiodari 2y ago
  Plus, if Hamas actually does release the hostages, every country, including the US, would demand Israel back off. I don't think there's any doubt on that by anyone, not even Hamas (who seem pretty apt at predicting responses of the West in any case). Hamas wants war. That's what they're getting paid for. Gaza is not really economically viable anyway, so this is the only way they're getting paid. Billions for a constant stream of dead Palestinians.
  - runarberg 2y ago
    If Hamas releases the hostages, we have no idea what would happen. Israel has shown it self to be very unpredictable and unreliable in following expectations from the international community, and the USA has shown it self to have an unconditional backing of whatever Israel does. I absolutely think that Hamas should release the hostages, immediately and unconditionally, but at the same time we have to be realistic that it is probably not going to happen without a ceasefire, and the non-civilian hostages are probably not going to be released without a permanent ceasefire and a prisoner swap. Regardless of whether Hamas wants continued war or not (which I kind of doubt as most Hamas members have civilian family members victims of the ongoing genocide) we have to realize that Israel is the main actor here and is committing a genocide. Israel, with a backing of the USA, has consistently refused ceasefires in the past, even when Hamas has shown in the past that they do release hostages during a ceasefire. I think the January ceasefire negotiations are very telling of how things usually go. Israel wants to continue the genocide and Hamas wants to keep the hostages, there is some settlements and concessions made, weeks go by, Hamas attends negotiations, Israel boycotts them, US state department blames Hamas for not wanting the deal, Hamas declares they want the deal, Netanyahu keeps insisting the war will continue regardless of deal, UN says they should make the deal, the deal falls apart, the US state department blames Hamas, the UN votes at the Security Council for a ceasefire resolution, the US veto’s it. In an environment like this, there is no way Hamas will release the hostages. Israel has to be the one that takes the first step, regardless of how unfair it may seem to you.
    - candiodari 2y ago
      "Israel is the main actor here" - are you insane? I mean this post is just one long monologue blaming Jews for not letting Palestinians kill them.
    - invalidname 2y ago
      This is a very creative re-imagining of reality. Israel has always respected ceasefires. The last time one was broken was in 2014 where Hamas killed Israeli soldiers during a ceasefire. The US cut off Israel multiple times including in the 80s. If you go back further you can find a point in time where the UK and US had a plot to bomb Israel. How ceasefires work is through a promise of hostage releases. E.g. on the last ceasefire we had we were promised all the women and children. Hamas didn't deliver on all of them and frequently delayed release to test the patience of Israel. They are a suicidal, religious cult. > which I kind of doubt as most Hamas members have civilian family members victims of the ongoing genocide First, there's no genocide. Second. The head of Hamas posted a photo of him delivering the news of his sons death in the conflict to his wife. They were both smiling at the news in the photo. Hamas are not western people with western sensibilities and you should stop thinking of them in these terms. They consider every death that's a part of Jihad (including children, including direct family) to be a blessing. That's insane. They purposefully started this conflict and are purposefully extending it in order to manipulate American sentiment. They understand that the west is soft of heart, that it's easy to manipulate us.
      - runarberg 2y ago
        I’m sorry keep returning to this, but seeing today’s headlines in Haaretz kind of proofs my point (or at least you should be able to understand my point of view from it): > Israel-Hamas Hostage Negotiations Hit Critical Juncture as Netanyahu's Statement Jeopardizes Progress https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/hostage-negotiations-hit-critical-juncture-as-netanyahus-statement-jeopardizes-progress/0000018f-4459-d0b5-a59f-75ddfad70000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... And: > Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.p... This is very similar to how the failed Qatar brokered ceasefire deal turned out in January/February [1]. It was also a temporary ceasefire with extension clauses, and all but ready to be signed and put into effect, meanwhile Netanyahu kept trying to vandalize it with statements of how Israel would not comply. And despite all that Hamas agreed to it, and it looked like it would come into effect, but at the last moment Israel withdrew and the genocide continued. It may be true that Hamas is a bad actor in these negotiations, and it may be that they bear a ton of fault for there not being a ceasefire already. But as today’s headlines prove, Israel’s responsibility is at least as much. 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68225663