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> No, water supply in Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Al

by radlad 3y ago

> No, water supply in Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here. I advise you look into the Flint water crisis, because your understanding doesn't sound accurate. The decision to change the source from one body of water to another was a municipal decision - made by the city's Emergency Manager (indicted on felony charges) - not one made by a private company.[0] The EPA (another governmental agency) mandates contaminate limits and testing. MDEQ (Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, another government agency) was not properly testing to federal requirements. Still, the issue was known by residents long before it was fixed, due to... private testing.[1] What happened in Flint was criminal negligence, but it had nothing to do with water supply being privatized (it wasn't), or a lack of monitoring requirements (although it's believed testing may have been manipulated... by government workers.[2]) [0] https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2014/04/closing_the_valve_on_history_f.html https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2014/04/closing_the_valve_o... [1] https://flintwaterstudy.org/2015/09/commentary-mdeq-mistakes-deception-flint-water-crisis/ https://flintwaterstudy.org/2015/09/commentary-mdeq-mistakes... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/21/us/flint-lead-water-testing-distortions.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/21/us/flint-lead... Edit: Here's a good place to start - https://mphdegree.usc.edu/blog/the-flint-water-crises https://mphdegree.usc.edu/blog/the-flint-water-crises Edit 2: Citations added.

weinzierl 3y ago
I don't think it is a mischaracterization to say that privatization played a significant role in the Flint water crisis. For example The Intercept headlined "FROM PITTSBURGH TO FLINT, THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES OF GIVING PRIVATE COMPANIES RESPONSIBILITY FOR AILING PUBLIC WATER SYSTEMS".[1] That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the United States should not be trusted and not against it. [1] https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/pittsburgh-flint-veolia-privatization-public-water-systems-lead/ https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/pittsburgh-flint-veolia-...
- radlad 3y ago
  If you read The Intercept article, you'll see that the company was hired to test the water after the Flint water crisis began, in response to citizen complaints. This is entirely separate from the federally mandated requirements around testing that was performed by government agencies. > That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the United States should not be trusted and not against it. We arrived here in response to your misinformed claim that "A disaster like Flint could not happen here" because "Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here." I've demonstrated that the US has similar policies in place, and neither the water supply nor the mandated testing for metals were privatized, yet the Flint disaster did happen. People and governments are fallible. Corruption and criminal negligence happens everywhere.
  - weinzierl 3y ago
    I don't think my claim is misinformed and I don't think the US and Germany are similar at all when it comes to water supply. Here we have multiple levels of security that would definitely have prevented a crisis similar to the one in Flint, even considering that corruption and criminal negligence could be at play. I also think we have different views what privatization means. Here privatization begins at the location where the water pipe enters the building. There is just no scenario where something like in Flint could play out because the incentives are not there. If that does not convince you I'd like to point you to the list of water crisis in Wikipedia. There have been none in western Europe while the US had Flint and Jackson. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis
    - radlad 3y ago
      Ok, you win. Germans are infallible and there have never been issues with tap water. > Here privatization begins at the location where the water pipe enters the building. As far as I am aware, the same is true in Flint. I do not understand the distinction you are drawing. Additionally, your Wikipedia link is obviously not an exhaustive list of "water crises" nor does it offer any insight into whether lead in tap water has been an issue in Europe. From an initial search, here's evidence to the contrary. Ctrl+F "Germany": https://www.zerowater.eu/zerowater-knowledge-center/lead-in-tap-water/ https://www.zerowater.eu/zerowater-knowledge-center/lead-in-...

by radlad 3y ago

weinzierl 3y ago

I don't think it is a mischaracterization to say that privatization played a significant role in the Flint water crisis. For example The Intercept headlined "FROM PITTSBURGH TO FLINT, THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES OF GIVING PRIVATE COMPANIES RESPONSIBILITY FOR AILING PUBLIC WATER SYSTEMS".[1] That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the United States should not be trusted and not against it. [1] https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/pittsburgh-flint-veolia-privatization-public-water-systems-lead/ https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/pittsburgh-flint-veolia-...

radlad 3y ago
If you read The Intercept article, you'll see that the company was hired to test the water after the Flint water crisis began, in response to citizen complaints. This is entirely separate from the federally mandated requirements around testing that was performed by government agencies. > That municipal decisions played an important role too, is - if anything - an argument for the thesis that the water supply in the United States should not be trusted and not against it. We arrived here in response to your misinformed claim that "A disaster like Flint could not happen here" because "Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here." I've demonstrated that the US has similar policies in place, and neither the water supply nor the mandated testing for metals were privatized, yet the Flint disaster did happen. People and governments are fallible. Corruption and criminal negligence happens everywhere.
- weinzierl 3y ago
  I don't think my claim is misinformed and I don't think the US and Germany are similar at all when it comes to water supply. Here we have multiple levels of security that would definitely have prevented a crisis similar to the one in Flint, even considering that corruption and criminal negligence could be at play. I also think we have different views what privatization means. Here privatization begins at the location where the water pipe enters the building. There is just no scenario where something like in Flint could play out because the incentives are not there. If that does not convince you I'd like to point you to the list of water crisis in Wikipedia. There have been none in western Europe while the US had Flint and Jackson. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_crisis
  - radlad 3y ago
    Ok, you win. Germans are infallible and there have never been issues with tap water. > Here privatization begins at the location where the water pipe enters the building. As far as I am aware, the same is true in Flint. I do not understand the distinction you are drawing. Additionally, your Wikipedia link is obviously not an exhaustive list of "water crises" nor does it offer any insight into whether lead in tap water has been an issue in Europe. From an initial search, here's evidence to the contrary. Ctrl+F "Germany": https://www.zerowater.eu/zerowater-knowledge-center/lead-in-tap-water/ https://www.zerowater.eu/zerowater-knowledge-center/lead-in-...