6 ms·

The Revenge of the Home Page

60 points by tysone 2y ago

skilled 2y ago
https://archive.is/PkwVY https://archive.is/PkwVY
- blisstonia 2y ago
  Thanks!
082349872349872 2y ago
> instead of passively waiting for social feeds to serve you what to read, you can seek out reading materials or even use RSS to get the best of both worlds? Lagniappe: https://search.marginalia.nu https://search.marginalia.nu
- lagniappe 2y ago
  Uh, thanks, but how did you know I was gonna be reading this?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    I presume they mean "by way of good measure", not tagging your username.
  - croisillon 2y ago
    TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagniappe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagniappe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40220793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40220793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40210065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40210065
skilled 2y ago
Internet was still an alien thing to a lot of people throughout the 2000s, and if you think about it - that’s only 14 years ago! And look at this article - it’s reflecting on the good old days as though it happened thousands of years ago. Yes, the problem definitely lies in social media and its evil attention-grabbing algorithms, but the fact that people never got to experience the old-school Internet also plays a role in this. People just don’t know any better! For a lot of folks, the web is merely a source of news, a means to pay bills, and to engage in mindless short-form entertainment. I am all for bringing back individual sites and communities back tho! Is money the real root problem of this? Not just from an advertising perspective but also from the perspective of a person. Fundamentally, the Internet provides freedom of communication with the entire world, but these days we can hardly engage with that world because the ability to support oneself financially comes first. As such, you either don’t spend a lot of time online, or you spend your entire time online chasing the cheddar…
- ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
  > I am all for bringing back individual sites and communities back tho! And if you do find a community you like, make sure you support it financially. Hosting isn't free and banner ads don't pay like they used to.
- JJMcJ 2y ago
  Now if RSS would just make a comeback it would be a new Golden Age.
  - MrVandemar 2y ago
    It never went away.
    - JJMcJ 2y ago
      Most blog sites don't have an RSS link any more. Of course the protocol still exists and is usable to track sites that allow it.
  - giantrobot 2y ago
    The issue with RSS is it is tied to the "long form" blog model* where a post requires a subject line. Most RSS readers do not do a great job displaying posts with no title. They also don't typically do anything with inline hash tags (inside the body content). With Facebook/Twitter/Etc (short form content) there's a very informal text box. Hash tags get processed inline with the body. It makes posting something incredibly low friction. A blog post that will actually show up correctly in an RSS reader has much higher friction. Boosting a blog post (reTweet or equivalent) is also high friction. Blogging never went away and blog hosts exist but "Social Media" style short form content exploded because it's low formality and low friction. Other features like direct messaging or posting picture and video are done online in the apps. A lot of early effort with that sort of stuff on blogs died early because it requires not just support in the blogging engine, but moderation/administration done by the owner of the blog and support inside the RSS software. * long form might only be a sentence
cal85 2y ago
> Then Twitter imploded What does imploded mean here?
- rickmode 2y ago
  In context, this means “self-inflicted harm”.
- brigadier132 2y ago
  Yeah I understand why you are confused but the article is alternative history fiction, just wasn't labelled as such.
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  Sucked up too much content from the bucket and causing itself to leak. Twitter needs a purge, like a sponge needs a squeeze.
surfingdino 2y ago
Early social media (MySpace, Twitter, Facebook) was a free alternative to paying someone to run, patch, and scale your own website/blog. It gave a lot of people opportunity to create their own communities and engage with them in a more convenient and immediate way than blogs or forums. The fun lasted for as long as free VC money was there and when that ran out they all went downhill. I am removing my social media posts, closing accounts, and going back to a website with a blog. Instagram, Twitter, and the rest of them are the new MySpace near its end days, they can run on fake accounts and bullshit content for a while, but advertisers will eventually learn that the audiences have gone elsewhere. That other place won't be another social media network, because spammers, bot devs, and mass-manufacturers of crap content are so well prepared that they can start flooding any new platform with their digital manure almost immediately.
- mrkramer 2y ago
  >Early social media (MySpace, Twitter, Facebook) was a free alternative to paying someone to run, patch, and scale your own website/blog. It gave a lot of people opportunity to create their own communities and engage with them in a more convenient and immediate way than blogs or forums. Exactly, it brought the complexity down dramatically for discovering and connecting with people online. >I am removing my social media posts, closing accounts, and going back to a website with a blog. Instagram, Twitter, and the rest of them are the new MySpace near its end days, they can run on fake accounts and bullshit content for a while, but advertisers will eventually learn that the audiences have gone elsewhere. I think a good idea would be; if somebody could make vanilla Facebook which was meant to connect you with friends and family but more privacy focused. Everything you do on Facebook is logged and fed into some kind of social graph and algorithm and eventually sold to advertisers. We already have more streamlined and privacy focused email and search engine alternatives but we don't have a private social network equivalent of Facebook. I think paying a few bucks for a monthly subscription in exchange for smaller, more secure and privacy focused version of Facebook wouldn't be a problem for people who want to stay private and off the Big Tech's grid.
- debian3 2y ago
  The fun lasted for as long as free VC money was there and when that ran out they all went downhill. I feel that’s where we are with ai at the moment. I guess at some point they will answer withs ads
hcarvalhoalves 2y ago
The “home page” is the digital version of the “front page” from newspapers, or the magazine format. It worked then, and it will keep working. In contrast, Twitter and the like is the equivalent to random people shouting on the street.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wuj 2y ago
I was surprised the article didn't mention Reddit. The issue with platforms lies in how quality contents are rewarded. Social media algorithms can be "hacked" to distribute unhelpful contents. The democratic voting system used by Reddit and HN solved this problem by quantifying helpfulness. The great thing is this mechanism incentivizes publishers to improve their contents, which is exactly what they are doing with their home pages, as mentioned in this article.
- OuterVale 2y ago
  You say it solved that issue, and, on the by and large, I'm inclined to agree with you. That said, it also had the effect of promoting an echo chamber that punishes anything truly outside the norm which causes damage of another type.
  - hkon 2y ago
    Indeed. The same way that video shorts are forcing every creator to use the same way of speaking, tonality, cadence. Reddit etc. are forcing you to write and think a certain way to generate upvotes.
- purple-leafy 2y ago
  Reddit upvotes karma system is incredibly, incredibly easily gamed and it’s happening on a mass scale. Most content is pure utter rubbish. Most content is crust level depth at best. Absolutely nothing deeper makes it to the front page. Why? Because modern humans have no attention span, and it’s like a herd of sheep. In fact, the best “social” media for me would be a site like reddit/hacker news where it can’t be gamed at all. I just want to see my interests and hobbies and articles on them. Maybe some barrier that prevents the masses from getting in. An IQ test? A programming puzzle that you must solve in a short time frame? Give me a walled garden utopia I’ve deleted everything. All I have now is HackerNews.
cybercephas 2y ago
twitter imploded? that’s news to me…
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  It is wishful thinking by those who were used to having it 'all to themselves' and were dismayed when Musk took off the ideological blinders. It was a cesspit before and remains a cesspit after but now at least there is some diversity in opinion to be found there.
angela-misan 2y ago
[dead]

60 points by tysone 2y ago

skilled 2y ago

https://archive.is/PkwVY https://archive.is/PkwVY

blisstonia 2y ago
Thanks!

082349872349872 2y ago

> instead of passively waiting for social feeds to serve you what to read, you can seek out reading materials or even use RSS to get the best of both worlds? Lagniappe: https://search.marginalia.nu https://search.marginalia.nu

lagniappe 2y ago
Uh, thanks, but how did you know I was gonna be reading this?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  I presume they mean "by way of good measure", not tagging your username.
- croisillon 2y ago
  TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagniappe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagniappe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40220793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40220793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40210065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40210065

skilled 2y ago

Internet was still an alien thing to a lot of people throughout the 2000s, and if you think about it - that’s only 14 years ago! And look at this article - it’s reflecting on the good old days as though it happened thousands of years ago. Yes, the problem definitely lies in social media and its evil attention-grabbing algorithms, but the fact that people never got to experience the old-school Internet also plays a role in this. People just don’t know any better! For a lot of folks, the web is merely a source of news, a means to pay bills, and to engage in mindless short-form entertainment. I am all for bringing back individual sites and communities back tho! Is money the real root problem of this? Not just from an advertising perspective but also from the perspective of a person. Fundamentally, the Internet provides freedom of communication with the entire world, but these days we can hardly engage with that world because the ability to support oneself financially comes first. As such, you either don’t spend a lot of time online, or you spend your entire time online chasing the cheddar…

ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
> I am all for bringing back individual sites and communities back tho! And if you do find a community you like, make sure you support it financially. Hosting isn't free and banner ads don't pay like they used to.
JJMcJ 2y ago
Now if RSS would just make a comeback it would be a new Golden Age.
- MrVandemar 2y ago
  It never went away.
  - JJMcJ 2y ago
    Most blog sites don't have an RSS link any more. Of course the protocol still exists and is usable to track sites that allow it.
- giantrobot 2y ago
  The issue with RSS is it is tied to the "long form" blog model* where a post requires a subject line. Most RSS readers do not do a great job displaying posts with no title. They also don't typically do anything with inline hash tags (inside the body content). With Facebook/Twitter/Etc (short form content) there's a very informal text box. Hash tags get processed inline with the body. It makes posting something incredibly low friction. A blog post that will actually show up correctly in an RSS reader has much higher friction. Boosting a blog post (reTweet or equivalent) is also high friction. Blogging never went away and blog hosts exist but "Social Media" style short form content exploded because it's low formality and low friction. Other features like direct messaging or posting picture and video are done online in the apps. A lot of early effort with that sort of stuff on blogs died early because it requires not just support in the blogging engine, but moderation/administration done by the owner of the blog and support inside the RSS software. * long form might only be a sentence

cal85 2y ago

> Then Twitter imploded What does imploded mean here?

rickmode 2y ago
In context, this means “self-inflicted harm”.
brigadier132 2y ago
Yeah I understand why you are confused but the article is alternative history fiction, just wasn't labelled as such.
doublerabbit 2y ago
Sucked up too much content from the bucket and causing itself to leak. Twitter needs a purge, like a sponge needs a squeeze.

surfingdino 2y ago

Early social media (MySpace, Twitter, Facebook) was a free alternative to paying someone to run, patch, and scale your own website/blog. It gave a lot of people opportunity to create their own communities and engage with them in a more convenient and immediate way than blogs or forums. The fun lasted for as long as free VC money was there and when that ran out they all went downhill. I am removing my social media posts, closing accounts, and going back to a website with a blog. Instagram, Twitter, and the rest of them are the new MySpace near its end days, they can run on fake accounts and bullshit content for a while, but advertisers will eventually learn that the audiences have gone elsewhere. That other place won't be another social media network, because spammers, bot devs, and mass-manufacturers of crap content are so well prepared that they can start flooding any new platform with their digital manure almost immediately.

mrkramer 2y ago
>Early social media (MySpace, Twitter, Facebook) was a free alternative to paying someone to run, patch, and scale your own website/blog. It gave a lot of people opportunity to create their own communities and engage with them in a more convenient and immediate way than blogs or forums. Exactly, it brought the complexity down dramatically for discovering and connecting with people online. >I am removing my social media posts, closing accounts, and going back to a website with a blog. Instagram, Twitter, and the rest of them are the new MySpace near its end days, they can run on fake accounts and bullshit content for a while, but advertisers will eventually learn that the audiences have gone elsewhere. I think a good idea would be; if somebody could make vanilla Facebook which was meant to connect you with friends and family but more privacy focused. Everything you do on Facebook is logged and fed into some kind of social graph and algorithm and eventually sold to advertisers. We already have more streamlined and privacy focused email and search engine alternatives but we don't have a private social network equivalent of Facebook. I think paying a few bucks for a monthly subscription in exchange for smaller, more secure and privacy focused version of Facebook wouldn't be a problem for people who want to stay private and off the Big Tech's grid.
debian3 2y ago
The fun lasted for as long as free VC money was there and when that ran out they all went downhill. I feel that’s where we are with ai at the moment. I guess at some point they will answer withs ads

hcarvalhoalves 2y ago

The “home page” is the digital version of the “front page” from newspapers, or the magazine format. It worked then, and it will keep working. In contrast, Twitter and the like is the equivalent to random people shouting on the street.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

wuj 2y ago

I was surprised the article didn't mention Reddit. The issue with platforms lies in how quality contents are rewarded. Social media algorithms can be "hacked" to distribute unhelpful contents. The democratic voting system used by Reddit and HN solved this problem by quantifying helpfulness. The great thing is this mechanism incentivizes publishers to improve their contents, which is exactly what they are doing with their home pages, as mentioned in this article.

OuterVale 2y ago
You say it solved that issue, and, on the by and large, I'm inclined to agree with you. That said, it also had the effect of promoting an echo chamber that punishes anything truly outside the norm which causes damage of another type.
- hkon 2y ago
  Indeed. The same way that video shorts are forcing every creator to use the same way of speaking, tonality, cadence. Reddit etc. are forcing you to write and think a certain way to generate upvotes.
purple-leafy 2y ago
Reddit upvotes karma system is incredibly, incredibly easily gamed and it’s happening on a mass scale. Most content is pure utter rubbish. Most content is crust level depth at best. Absolutely nothing deeper makes it to the front page. Why? Because modern humans have no attention span, and it’s like a herd of sheep. In fact, the best “social” media for me would be a site like reddit/hacker news where it can’t be gamed at all. I just want to see my interests and hobbies and articles on them. Maybe some barrier that prevents the masses from getting in. An IQ test? A programming puzzle that you must solve in a short time frame? Give me a walled garden utopia I’ve deleted everything. All I have now is HackerNews.

cybercephas 2y ago

twitter imploded? that’s news to me…

hagbard_c 2y ago
It is wishful thinking by those who were used to having it 'all to themselves' and were dismayed when Musk took off the ideological blinders. It was a cesspit before and remains a cesspit after but now at least there is some diversity in opinion to be found there.

angela-misan 2y ago

[dead]