7 ms·

I would expect most Ivy's to follow. What parent is going to sit there and watch the chaos and violence on those campuses and think "thats where I should send m

• jltsiren 2y ago
  It's not the university but the students. When you have a lot of young ambitious people with weird ideas in one place, you get trouble. Not always, but once in a while.
  • wonderwonder 2y ago
    I would argue its not just the students but the faculty. Some very far left faculty advocating for this chaos there.
    • wolverine876 2y ago
      What chaos and who is advocating for chaos?
  • wolverine876 2y ago
    > When you have a lot of young ambitious people with weird ideas in one place, you get trouble. You get wonderful things and 'good trouble'.
    • jltsiren 2y ago
      Sometimes good, sometimes bad, and sometimes you can't tell until much later. One of the most noteworthy instances of student activism in the history of the university I went to was recruiting people to fight for the enemy in WW1. Those people then formed the core of the army that won the subsequent civil war. Things were bad for a while, but the country turned out to be mostly fine 15-20 years later.
• janalsncm 2y ago
  Another way to think about it, those schools you mentioned might not have contracts with the Israeli government which is one of the things students at Colombia are protesting.
  • lowkey_ 2y ago
    > those schools you mentioned might not have contracts with the Israeli government which is one of the things students at Colombia are protesting Do you have a source? I don't think this is true.
    • janalsncm 2y ago
      I’m only speculating about the contracts part, is that what you’re referring to?
  • wonderwonder 2y ago
    UF has significant investments and contracts with Israel. The school just did not tolerate the protests and had the police shut them down then kicked the arrested students out for 3 years.
    • WeylandYutani 2y ago
      Land of the free lol. In Europe universities have always been hotbeds for protest and debate. It's why they exist. They have a role beyond being a fucking diploma mill. Although if I had to get myself into 100k student debt I might think differently...
      • invalidname 2y ago
        That's an interesting point. In France students practically burned down the country and De Gaulle had to escape them. He held an election as a result and won decisively. The same is true for the Vietnam protests which effectively helped Nixon win (against those hippies). These protests typically harm the cause and this is especially true for these protests. What would be the result? Biden might lose and Trumps Israel policy would be pretty brutal. Even in the short term, these protests are encouraging Hamas. As a result they're delaying the ceasefire. Israelis look at the protests as ignorant and antisemitic which is strengthening the Israeli right wing. All is the exact opposite of the two state solution goal.
• spamizbad 2y ago
  > What parent is going to sit there and watch the chaos and violence on those campuses and think "thats where I should send my kids" Because there's no better signal to potential employers for recent college graduates? The media ignores them, but there's tons of protests at state schools as well. Guess you could send your kids to some religious university I suppose.
  • wonderwonder 2y ago
    There were attempted protests at UF. They were shut down, protestors arrested and suspended from campus for 3 years. There were also protests in TX state schools, same result essentially. Some schools don't allow other students to take over the campus and prevent other paying students from access or attending class. They also don't permit violence. Obviously each of those schools has their own political agenda controlled by their govenors but kids can go to class.
    • asdgksdniko 2y ago
      >Some schools don't allow other students to take over the campus and prevent other paying students from access or attending class. People hanging out on lawns don't prevent anyone from attending class. The encampments have been, to the best of my knowledge, entirely peaceful. Certainly the one at Columbia has been. You can disagree with the protestors. You can think they're trespassing or that they're being too disruptive. But you don't get to lie on my watch.
      • wonderwonder 2y ago
        hmm, what about when the school cancels in person classes because the campus is not safe? Is that not preventing anyone from attending class? https://nypost.com/2024/04/22/us-news/columbia-cancels-in-person-classes-amid-anti-israel-protests/ https://nypost.com/2024/04/22/us-news/columbia-cancels-in-pe... what about when protestors seize and vandalize an academic building? Is that not preventing anyone from attending classes? https://www.al.com/news/2024/04/columbia-university-israel-hamas-protesters-seize-building-hang-palestinian-flag-from-window.html https://www.al.com/news/2024/04/columbia-university-israel-h... What about the Jewish girl that was sent to the hospital at UCLA? https://twitter.com/kleavittnh/status/1785495804393701780 https://twitter.com/kleavittnh/status/1785495804393701780 probably hard for her to attend classes that day? Hows your watch going?
• tootie 2y ago
  The only violence I've seen was committed by police. Besides, these universities have single-digit acceptance rates. They could lose half their applicants and still fill their seats no problem.
  • wonderwonder 2y ago
    Then you have not looked, tons of violence against jews taking place on columbia and UCLA. Not to mention vandalism and denying access to public areas to other paying students
    • phone8675309 2y ago
      This has slipped my notice as well - can you link to some of the incidents?
    • josefresco 2y ago
      I've looked plenty mainly on Twitter/X and the only violence I've seen is by the police and today there were videos of "counter protestors" (1) attacking an encampment at UCLA. Please share links that back your claims. 1: Examples of "counter protest attack" https://twitter.com/TeresaWatanabe/status/1785575610469007471 https://twitter.com/TeresaWatanabe/status/178557561046900747... https://twitter.com/caitiedelaney/status/1785562553025765774 https://twitter.com/caitiedelaney/status/1785562553025765774 https://twitter.com/AssalRad/status/1785562525888917938 https://twitter.com/AssalRad/status/1785562525888917938
    • tootie 2y ago
      You're wrong. There have not been serious attacks on any jews. There have been a handful of scuffles between counterprotestors, but nobody is being targeted. As someone who is at least ethnically jewish, I am entirely convinced that antisemitism is a red herring. There are far more jews amongst the protestors then there are victims of anything.
      • nsguy 2y ago
        As someone else who is ethnically Jewish I feel there is definitely an element of antisemitism in these protests. Antisemitism isn't limited to physical attacks on Jewish people (which have been on the rise and are definitely correlated to the overall atmosphere). What do you think antisemitism is and do you really feel 100% of the protests and the protesters clearly hold no antisemitic views? I would say antisemitic views are rampant in many middle eastern communities and some subsection of the protesters and their stated views reflect that. Either way, Jewish people feel threatened (including myself).
• asdgksdniko 2y ago
  I'm getting awfully tired of the way college students are alternatively treated as children or as adults based on what's rhetorically useful. These are full-grown human beings. They don't need parents to tell them what to do, professors to tell them what to think, or outside agitators to tell them how to protest. Some students will look at what's happening on these campuses and be disgusted by the protestors. Some of them will be proud of them. Some of them will be frightened of the crackdown from administration. Some of them will take it as a challenge.
• tombert 2y ago
  Sadly there are still jobs that have firm requirements of "Top 20 schools" based often on pretty subjective metrics. UF and FSU and Auburn are great schools and the quality of education there is probably comparable to that of Harvard, but that almost doesn't matter. I went to a decidedly unfancy university (WGU), I think it was fine, and then I went to a slightly fancier University for graduate school (University of York, UK), but I still didn't get callbacks for the Wall Street jobs that I applied for [1]. Obviously there are thousands of factors that could lead to me not getting a callback, but eventually one recruiter outright told me that I shouldn't waste my time applying because I didn't go to a "top 20 school", and to "try working for a bank instead". Keep in mind, I'm hardly a "fresh graduate", I have like 13 years of software engineering experience and have worked at a FAANG and other very large corporations and have spoken at multiple technical conferences. For most companies that's more than good enough (I actually worked at Apple when I was still a dropout), but the Wall Street world seems to care a lot more about yuppie credentials. What I'm getting at is there are some careers where the quality of the education itself is secondary. They want to see some fancy names on the resume and it really doesn't matter if you're "qualified". It's not fair, it's arguably classist, but they didn't ask me when making these policies. [1] Though some people tell me that I might have dodged a bullet with that one.
  • eitally 2y ago
    You're right, but it's a little misleading to through around stuff like this without basically calling out that it's only big law and investment banking that behave this way. I don't think any other industries are the same.
    • tombert 2y ago
      When I was at Jet.com, there was a somewhat controversial decision made by the CEO that the new "category specialists" they were hiring had to be from a "Top 20 school". They of course didn't define what that meant, but it did a good job pissing off pretty much everyone. I agree it's primarily finance and law, but I don't think they have a monopoly on elitist snobbery.
  • wolverine876 2y ago
• wolverine876 2y ago
  > chaos and violence The protests are docile. There are almost no reports of violence. I've seen more than one 'encampment' at various schools; it's just people hanging around tents. Most of the chaos and violence were introduced by law enforcement. How could the protestors be any less disruptive and still be protesting? Picket lines are more disruptive. Protests with chaos and violence include large crowds destroying and looting. The reactionaries are so anxious to assume the protestors are awful that they just seem to assume or say there is 'chaos and violence' and people repeat it, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
  • sandspar 2y ago
    >The protests are docile For how much longer do you expect them to remain docile?
    • wolverine876 2y ago
      If you have information that says otherwise, please share it. FWIW, your assumptions about the protestors seem to match the preconceived notions (conveniently serving anti-progressive politics) of the neoreactionaries - before the protestors even begin, they are terrorists, etc. Judge them by what they do, not all that nonsense: they have been peaceful everywhere.
      • sandspar 2y ago
        Did you misunderstand me? I meant that the protests are likely to not remain docile for the future. I didn't mean "for how much longer will you continue to believe they're docile", I meant "what do you believe is the length of time they'll remain docile". Sorry if I was unclear.
        • wolverine876 2y ago
          I understood you the first time, though thanks for clarifying. My questions are based on that understanding.