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I'm not quite following; are you saying it's not recommended that you drink American tap water? Or that there are bunch of other countries with sketchier water

I'm not quite following; are you saying it's not recommended that you drink American tap water? Or that there are bunch of other countries with sketchier water full of drinking fountains?

weinzierl 2y ago
I would not drink American tap water, at least not in the cities that I travelled. It always smelt like chlorine and from what I googled apparently up to 4 milligrams per liter are regularly allowed in the US. This is definitely not a thing in western Europe. We don't need to talk about the things that you cannot taste or smell and what happened in Flint.
- icambron 2y ago
  I just read this whole thread, and it's all very silly. You've laundered "I don't like the water" into "it is not recommended that you drink the water" which are really different things. The latter implies that there is a consensus understanding about this, the way there is for, say, Guatemala. 200+ million Americans drink their tap water, and most visitors do too. There are many parts of the US where water could be improved, especially in lower-density places and especially for recently-discovered contaminants, but the idea that travelers need to be careful about it as a matter of safety just isn't true. Flint is a huge news story precisely because it is so aberrant in a country with otherwise good water.
- radlad 2y ago
  > It always smells like chlorine and from what I googled apparently up to 4 milligrams per liter are regularly allowed in the US. Why is this a problem? Flavor? This is certainly different than places like Mexico, where the tap water isn't potable. > We don't need to talk about the things that you cannot taste or smell and what happened in Flint. If we're talking about unknown unknowns, this is true of anywhere in the world.
  - weinzierl 2y ago
    > "Why is this a problem? Flavor?" Yes, if it already smells after chlorine, how can I know what else is in there. If it was from a clean source, it would not need chlorine in the first place. > "If we're talking about unknown unknowns, this is true of anywhere in the world." No, water supply in Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here.
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      If it already smells like chlorine, you can know what isn't in there: Living organisms that want to kill you.
      - weinzierl 2y ago
        That is why you monitor the water supply. It is done in my rented apartment by a company commissioned by the landlord and it is done daily at the water works. If there are to many living organisms they add chlorine and inform the public, which happens only every couple of years. The alternative is dead organisms plus a quite toxic substance in your water.
        quickthrowman 2y ago
        > The alternative is dead organisms plus a quite toxic substance in your water. Chlorine being toxic in drinking water is your personal opinion. Your opinion is not shared by the people who are experts in drinking water treatment in the US. Chlorine kills microorganisms that aren’t filtered out in previous water treatment steps. Please cite some evidence that chlorine in drinking water is dangerous to humans at concentrations lower than 4mg/L.
        weinzierl 2y ago
        The CDC says the TLV for chlorine is 1.5 mg/m3. Note, that this is per cubic meter and not per liter. So a TLV of 0,0015 mg/l vs 4 mg/l in US drinking water. Here is the source, as you requested: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7782505.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7782505.html And here the definition of TLV from Wikipedia: The threshold limit value (TLV) is a level of occupational exposure to a hazardous substance where it is believed that nearly all healthy workers can repeatedly experience at or below this level of exposure without adverse effects. So much for that, but it is only half the story. Chlorine is a gas and therefore volatile. The measured chlorine in the waterworks says little about the amount that ends up in your body. What it does though is, that it forms compounds with organic substances (the microorganisms it kills) in the water, which in turn can be toxic or carcinogenic. Instead of regulating the volatile chlorine it makes much more sense to regulate the harmful compounds, which is exactly what many European countries do.
- fatnoah 2y ago
  I'm a bit of a tap water connoisseur, and tap water in the US varies greatly. I grew up in the northeast US, in a town where the water comes from a mostly spring-fed lake. The water has zero chlorine taste or smell. I currently live in another town in the US where the water mostly comes from a local reservoir, and also has no taste or smell. In both cases, water pipes are buried to avoid frost, resulting in cold water from the tap all year. San Francisco area also has surprisingly good tap water, likely due to the clay/soil in the areas the water is sourced from. In other places, like Florida, minerals and sulphur give the water a distinctly unpleasant taste, and shallow pipe depth keeps the water from getting cool.
  - lukas099 2y ago
    > tap water in the US varies greatly Absolutely in taste. In terms of safety I think it is okay pretty much everywhere. If you live anywhere long term you should definitely look up the municipal water testing results at least once though.
- weinzierl 2y ago
  I cannot add to my post above, but since people don't seem to take it well, I'd like to add some data to back it up. Here is the link to a paper that compared contaminants in drinking water in various developed countries. When it comes to residual chlorine the USA demonstrated the highest levels followed by Singapore and Canada. After these three countries there was a huge gap before the UK and other countries which much lower levels. Could it be that you are all so used to the chlorine, that you don't notice it anymore? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343719890_Comparative_Analysis_of_Chemical_Physical_and_Biological_Contaminants_in_Drinking_Water_in_Various_Developed_Countries_around_the_World https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343719890_Comparati... In addition, here is the WHO list of countries ranked by access to safe drinking water. The US is number 42 after Bulgaria and Guadeloupe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_access_to_clean_water https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_access_...
  - stonogo 2y ago
    I don't think that WHO list is particularly useful. Included in the numbers of "people without access to safe drinking water" is everyone who draws from a well or a spring. The US is huge and well water is extremely common in rural areas; most well-water users have their own in-house water treatment equipment. Nevertheless they'd be classified as not having access to an improved water source under this survey.
  - radlad 2y ago
    From your first link, Table 1, I see that the United States EPA regulates chlorine to 0.2-4 mg/L. The upper bound is lower than the rest of countries with regulations. Some countries - including the European Union, United Kingdom, and Ireland - appear to have no regulations at all. Residual levels show 3 mg/L of chlorine in the United States which is higher than most other countries (Singapore, and to a lesser extent, Canada, excluded.) What I don't understand is why you see these levels, which are considered safe by most health agencies, as a cause for concern. As another commenter pointed out, the chlorine exists to ensure the water is safe to drink.
    - weinzierl 2y ago

I'm not quite following; are you saying it's not recommended that you drink American tap water? Or that there are bunch of other countries with sketchier water full of drinking fountains?

weinzierl 2y ago

I would not drink American tap water, at least not in the cities that I travelled. It always smelt like chlorine and from what I googled apparently up to 4 milligrams per liter are regularly allowed in the US. This is definitely not a thing in western Europe. We don't need to talk about the things that you cannot taste or smell and what happened in Flint.

icambron 2y ago
I just read this whole thread, and it's all very silly. You've laundered "I don't like the water" into "it is not recommended that you drink the water" which are really different things. The latter implies that there is a consensus understanding about this, the way there is for, say, Guatemala. 200+ million Americans drink their tap water, and most visitors do too. There are many parts of the US where water could be improved, especially in lower-density places and especially for recently-discovered contaminants, but the idea that travelers need to be careful about it as a matter of safety just isn't true. Flint is a huge news story precisely because it is so aberrant in a country with otherwise good water.
radlad 2y ago
> It always smells like chlorine and from what I googled apparently up to 4 milligrams per liter are regularly allowed in the US. Why is this a problem? Flavor? This is certainly different than places like Mexico, where the tap water isn't potable. > We don't need to talk about the things that you cannot taste or smell and what happened in Flint. If we're talking about unknown unknowns, this is true of anywhere in the world.
- weinzierl 2y ago
  > "Why is this a problem? Flavor?" Yes, if it already smells after chlorine, how can I know what else is in there. If it was from a clean source, it would not need chlorine in the first place. > "If we're talking about unknown unknowns, this is true of anywhere in the world." No, water supply in Germany is closely monitored at the source, at the water works and even close to the user in apartment buildings and rental properties. Also, our water supply is not privatized, like in the US. A disaster like Flint could not happen here.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    If it already smells like chlorine, you can know what isn't in there: Living organisms that want to kill you.
    - weinzierl 2y ago
      That is why you monitor the water supply. It is done in my rented apartment by a company commissioned by the landlord and it is done daily at the water works. If there are to many living organisms they add chlorine and inform the public, which happens only every couple of years. The alternative is dead organisms plus a quite toxic substance in your water.
      - quickthrowman 2y ago
        > The alternative is dead organisms plus a quite toxic substance in your water. Chlorine being toxic in drinking water is your personal opinion. Your opinion is not shared by the people who are experts in drinking water treatment in the US. Chlorine kills microorganisms that aren’t filtered out in previous water treatment steps. Please cite some evidence that chlorine in drinking water is dangerous to humans at concentrations lower than 4mg/L.
        weinzierl 2y ago
        The CDC says the TLV for chlorine is 1.5 mg/m3. Note, that this is per cubic meter and not per liter. So a TLV of 0,0015 mg/l vs 4 mg/l in US drinking water. Here is the source, as you requested: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7782505.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7782505.html And here the definition of TLV from Wikipedia: The threshold limit value (TLV) is a level of occupational exposure to a hazardous substance where it is believed that nearly all healthy workers can repeatedly experience at or below this level of exposure without adverse effects. So much for that, but it is only half the story. Chlorine is a gas and therefore volatile. The measured chlorine in the waterworks says little about the amount that ends up in your body. What it does though is, that it forms compounds with organic substances (the microorganisms it kills) in the water, which in turn can be toxic or carcinogenic. Instead of regulating the volatile chlorine it makes much more sense to regulate the harmful compounds, which is exactly what many European countries do.
fatnoah 2y ago
I'm a bit of a tap water connoisseur, and tap water in the US varies greatly. I grew up in the northeast US, in a town where the water comes from a mostly spring-fed lake. The water has zero chlorine taste or smell. I currently live in another town in the US where the water mostly comes from a local reservoir, and also has no taste or smell. In both cases, water pipes are buried to avoid frost, resulting in cold water from the tap all year. San Francisco area also has surprisingly good tap water, likely due to the clay/soil in the areas the water is sourced from. In other places, like Florida, minerals and sulphur give the water a distinctly unpleasant taste, and shallow pipe depth keeps the water from getting cool.
- lukas099 2y ago
  > tap water in the US varies greatly Absolutely in taste. In terms of safety I think it is okay pretty much everywhere. If you live anywhere long term you should definitely look up the municipal water testing results at least once though.
weinzierl 2y ago
I cannot add to my post above, but since people don't seem to take it well, I'd like to add some data to back it up. Here is the link to a paper that compared contaminants in drinking water in various developed countries. When it comes to residual chlorine the USA demonstrated the highest levels followed by Singapore and Canada. After these three countries there was a huge gap before the UK and other countries which much lower levels. Could it be that you are all so used to the chlorine, that you don't notice it anymore? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343719890_Comparative_Analysis_of_Chemical_Physical_and_Biological_Contaminants_in_Drinking_Water_in_Various_Developed_Countries_around_the_World https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343719890_Comparati... In addition, here is the WHO list of countries ranked by access to safe drinking water. The US is number 42 after Bulgaria and Guadeloupe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_access_to_clean_water https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_access_...
- stonogo 2y ago
  I don't think that WHO list is particularly useful. Included in the numbers of "people without access to safe drinking water" is everyone who draws from a well or a spring. The US is huge and well water is extremely common in rural areas; most well-water users have their own in-house water treatment equipment. Nevertheless they'd be classified as not having access to an improved water source under this survey.
- radlad 2y ago
  From your first link, Table 1, I see that the United States EPA regulates chlorine to 0.2-4 mg/L. The upper bound is lower than the rest of countries with regulations. Some countries - including the European Union, United Kingdom, and Ireland - appear to have no regulations at all. Residual levels show 3 mg/L of chlorine in the United States which is higher than most other countries (Singapore, and to a lesser extent, Canada, excluded.) What I don't understand is why you see these levels, which are considered safe by most health agencies, as a cause for concern. As another commenter pointed out, the chlorine exists to ensure the water is safe to drink.
  - weinzierl 2y ago