6 ms·

The article provides an alright overview but omits a critical aspect: the correlation between race and crime rates is strikingly high. For example, FBI data sho

The article provides an alright overview but omits a critical aspect: the correlation between race and crime rates is strikingly high. For example, FBI data shows vast differences in murder rates by race: African American: 33.6 homicides per 100,000 people American Indian and Alaska Native: 12.9 per 100,000 Hispanic: 6.9 per 100,000 White: 3.3 per 100,000 Asian and Pacific Islander: 1.7 per 100,000 There are other crimes in which the numbers are flipped, such as gambling and financial crimes. If we're serious about making things better and stopping violence, or whatever crime, we need to be upfront about who it's impacting the most and why.

underseacables 2y ago
I think a lot of crime Statistics are twisted and misreported to meet political agendas. One side doesn't want to give the other side any ammunition.
- fullshark 2y ago
  This is the case with literally everything and every large scale social argument, both sides selectively choose facts that align with their agenda. This is why newspapers which have editors (that selectively choose stories) and writers (that selectively choose what facts go into those stories and what "context" to provide) are propagandists and always will be. Now that we have techonlogists who are replacing both with algorithms that pattern will extend most likely, to the algorithm designers.
joey443 2y ago
[flagged]
- verdverm 2y ago
  Domestic policy may not "fix" it globally, but America could show leadership on improving the situation
- RajT88 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - joey443 2y ago
    [flagged]
- alchemist1e9 2y ago
  Stop collecting race data and treat all problems with equality. Have programs to provide socioeconomic services but never never use race. Build a system completely blind to it yet compassionate. That way any genetic factors that may or may not be contributing to violence are treated like all other genetic factors for all other problems.
- nathan_compton 2y ago
  People react negatively to this stuff because you've conspicuously failed to mention the biggest confound: socioeconomic status. Given that there are huge socioeconomic differences on the basis of "race" (which is an imaginary idea, even if we acknowledge that humans vary by genetics) its very difficult to separate these effects. The fact that you don't even mention it is frankly quite conspicuous and might account for some of the negative reactions.
packetlost 2y ago
Now correct for socio-economic status and watch those racial disparities almost disappear.
- alchemist1e9 2y ago
  You sure about that almost part? I don’t really know but I want to make a different point. Stop collecting race and ethnicity data! It’s really that easy. France long ago outlawed the very collection of such information. Why? because use socioeconomic analysis and variables that exclude race to have compassionate policies that treat all humans equally. Once you inject race and ethnicity into policies it does nothing but harm, it either provides excuses or fodder for racists, just outlaw the collecting of that information, France has for a long long time. Collecting anything else, any other socioeconomic variable is fine and can be used to create policy without such negative consequences.
  - cgannett 2y ago
    Its almost as if the policies produced by racist conclusions create the conditions that perpetuate the misleading data. /s Humans are an "INBRED" species. By this I mean we have little genetic diversity compared to most other species on the planet. Race isn't even real genetically speaking. It is real in a socioeconomic sense because people believe its real and that has real consequences. But outside of human belief and behavior, race is a load of imaginary divisions.
    - packetlost 2y ago
      I have zero evidence to support this, but I would be more inclined to believe that (sub) cultural environments impact these stats way more than genetics. None of the data or even logical reasoning supports a genetic component.
    - slibhb 2y ago
      > Race isn't even real genetically speaking If you map every human genome in some space, there will be clusters. This is race. You can argue that there are no clear boundaries between clusters but that's true for everything. You can use that argument to say there's no difference between trees and bushes (and so on, applied to every distinction).
Chabsff 2y ago
I don't mind them omitting this particular set of numbers because the very strong correlation between race and socio-economic status tends to change the picture considerably when you control for it. The raw numbers are misleading in a very politically charged way.
jmyeet 2y ago
I want to make a general comment about this. I don't direct this to you, personally. I bring it up because it's a common talking point in certain pllitical leanings: the idea that race is a factor in crime (specifically, that black Americans commit more crime). It's an opportunity for media and staistics literacy. I'm glad that most of the sister comments here recognize the issue. Let's say there is a racial disparity in crime. Assuming it's true, the reasons are either intrinsic or extrinsic. Intrinsic reasons (eg a certain group being fundamentally more violent) are racist arguments. Extrinsic reasons mean there is some other factor not accounted for in the day. This brings us to the confounding variable [1]. There is some other factor that creates this disparity. And that factor, which other commenters have correctly identified, is poverty (ie socioeconomic status). The link between poverty and crime has been known for, quite literally, thousands of years. Aristotle is known for saying "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime". This fact is often overlooked in modern political discourse. I bring this up in case anyone encounters this argumment in the wild. [1]: https://www.scribbr.com/methodology/confounding-variables/ https://www.scribbr.com/methodology/confounding-variables/
- drewcoo 2y ago
  > it's a common talking point in certain [political] leanings: the idea that race is a factor in crime So . . . people with "other" political leanings are known to attribute many problems to poverty. Many more problems than other politics would allow. And they call us radical leftists. We are not widely accepted. Just sayin'.
- toptear 2y ago
  [flagged]
dvngnt_ 2y ago
how exactly would this knowledge affect policy? all I see are people online saying "despite only being 13 percent of the population..."
- drewcoo 2y ago
  We could use it to more heavily police certain neighborhoods and the police could profile people by race . . . oh! Never mind.
nielsbot 2y ago
In what ways should society use race data to make things better and stop violence? Also wondering about the cause of the difference.

underseacables 2y ago

I think a lot of crime Statistics are twisted and misreported to meet political agendas. One side doesn't want to give the other side any ammunition.

fullshark 2y ago
This is the case with literally everything and every large scale social argument, both sides selectively choose facts that align with their agenda. This is why newspapers which have editors (that selectively choose stories) and writers (that selectively choose what facts go into those stories and what "context" to provide) are propagandists and always will be. Now that we have techonlogists who are replacing both with algorithms that pattern will extend most likely, to the algorithm designers.

joey443 2y ago

[flagged]

verdverm 2y ago
Domestic policy may not "fix" it globally, but America could show leadership on improving the situation
RajT88 2y ago
[flagged]
- joey443 2y ago
  [flagged]
alchemist1e9 2y ago
Stop collecting race data and treat all problems with equality. Have programs to provide socioeconomic services but never never use race. Build a system completely blind to it yet compassionate. That way any genetic factors that may or may not be contributing to violence are treated like all other genetic factors for all other problems.
nathan_compton 2y ago
People react negatively to this stuff because you've conspicuously failed to mention the biggest confound: socioeconomic status. Given that there are huge socioeconomic differences on the basis of "race" (which is an imaginary idea, even if we acknowledge that humans vary by genetics) its very difficult to separate these effects. The fact that you don't even mention it is frankly quite conspicuous and might account for some of the negative reactions.

packetlost 2y ago

Now correct for socio-economic status and watch those racial disparities almost disappear.

alchemist1e9 2y ago
You sure about that almost part? I don’t really know but I want to make a different point. Stop collecting race and ethnicity data! It’s really that easy. France long ago outlawed the very collection of such information. Why? because use socioeconomic analysis and variables that exclude race to have compassionate policies that treat all humans equally. Once you inject race and ethnicity into policies it does nothing but harm, it either provides excuses or fodder for racists, just outlaw the collecting of that information, France has for a long long time. Collecting anything else, any other socioeconomic variable is fine and can be used to create policy without such negative consequences.
- cgannett 2y ago
  Its almost as if the policies produced by racist conclusions create the conditions that perpetuate the misleading data. /s Humans are an "INBRED" species. By this I mean we have little genetic diversity compared to most other species on the planet. Race isn't even real genetically speaking. It is real in a socioeconomic sense because people believe its real and that has real consequences. But outside of human belief and behavior, race is a load of imaginary divisions.
  - packetlost 2y ago
    I have zero evidence to support this, but I would be more inclined to believe that (sub) cultural environments impact these stats way more than genetics. None of the data or even logical reasoning supports a genetic component.
  - slibhb 2y ago
    > Race isn't even real genetically speaking If you map every human genome in some space, there will be clusters. This is race. You can argue that there are no clear boundaries between clusters but that's true for everything. You can use that argument to say there's no difference between trees and bushes (and so on, applied to every distinction).

Chabsff 2y ago

I don't mind them omitting this particular set of numbers because the very strong correlation between race and socio-economic status tends to change the picture considerably when you control for it. The raw numbers are misleading in a very politically charged way.

jmyeet 2y ago

I want to make a general comment about this. I don't direct this to you, personally. I bring it up because it's a common talking point in certain pllitical leanings: the idea that race is a factor in crime (specifically, that black Americans commit more crime). It's an opportunity for media and staistics literacy. I'm glad that most of the sister comments here recognize the issue. Let's say there is a racial disparity in crime. Assuming it's true, the reasons are either intrinsic or extrinsic. Intrinsic reasons (eg a certain group being fundamentally more violent) are racist arguments. Extrinsic reasons mean there is some other factor not accounted for in the day. This brings us to the confounding variable [1]. There is some other factor that creates this disparity. And that factor, which other commenters have correctly identified, is poverty (ie socioeconomic status). The link between poverty and crime has been known for, quite literally, thousands of years. Aristotle is known for saying "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime". This fact is often overlooked in modern political discourse. I bring this up in case anyone encounters this argumment in the wild. [1]: https://www.scribbr.com/methodology/confounding-variables/ https://www.scribbr.com/methodology/confounding-variables/

drewcoo 2y ago
> it's a common talking point in certain [political] leanings: the idea that race is a factor in crime So . . . people with "other" political leanings are known to attribute many problems to poverty. Many more problems than other politics would allow. And they call us radical leftists. We are not widely accepted. Just sayin'.
toptear 2y ago
[flagged]

dvngnt_ 2y ago

how exactly would this knowledge affect policy? all I see are people online saying "despite only being 13 percent of the population..."

drewcoo 2y ago
We could use it to more heavily police certain neighborhoods and the police could profile people by race . . . oh! Never mind.

nielsbot 2y ago

In what ways should society use race data to make things better and stop violence? Also wondering about the cause of the difference.