4 ms·

> There were no major differences in violent crime victimization rates between male and female respondents or between those who identified as White, Black or Hi

> There were no major differences in violent crime victimization rates between male and female respondents or between those who identified as White, Black or Hispanic. This statement is profoundly misleading, calling into question the validity of the entire article. Black Americans are much more likely to be homicide victims than any other group. The fact that the general category of "violent crime victimization" appears to be equal for all 3 groups probably just means that there are huge differences in what gets reported. A street fight in an affluent white neighborhood probably means that the cops get involved, the same level of altercation in a majority black area probably does not involve police.

zaphar 2y ago
They come armed with statistical data. You come with a statement of fact that you don't support with any data. While I might be predisposed to believe you, you do not in fact offer any support for doing so.
tgv 2y ago
That came from self-reported survey data, a well-known source for manufacturing statistics.
cantSpellSober 2y ago
Can you share data to back that statement up please? I think what they were getting at is that crime is more closely linked to age and economic status than race > younger people and those with lower incomes were far more likely to report being the victim of a violent crime than older and higher-income people
- reissbaker 2y ago
  Not the OP, but this Wikipedia article seems like it does a decent job of covering the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...
  - cantSpellSober 2y ago
    Which notes a similar point: > Researchers note that there are socioeconomic factors underlying these crime statistics, and that crime is often higher in low-income neighborhoods
ebiester 2y ago
I'm not sure that's true. Now, the white person may not end up being charged, or their punishment may be greatly reduced (due to race, class status, and access to council), but what makes you think that the police are less likely to get involved at the same level of violence?
- underseacables 2y ago
  I think it's possible there could be a bias against certain racial groups. An assumption that this group of people commits or does not commit crimes, higher or lower than other groups, and so that primes the interaction.
somenameforme 2y ago
Since multiple people asked for stats on this, I'm just putting it as a response to the parent instead of responding to any given individual. Here [1] they are. It's from 2018 because it seems like at some point the FBI chose to replace nice simple tables with some really horrible UX 'data explorer' that leaves me absolutely unable to find more recent data on the exact same stat. Anyhow, black Americans made up something like 40% (eyeballing) of total homicide victims, yet are only about 12% of the population. It's extremely disproportionate. [1] - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
- bregma 2y ago
  Ah, but there is a known strong correlation between poverty and crime, and strong correlation between race and poverty. Any conflation of correlation with causation between race and crime is exclusively an attempt to obfuscate a racist political stance.
  - somenameforme 2y ago
    Your comment has nothing to do with what's being discussed. The self reported survey claims that black individuals have no higher chance of victimization than other groups. One of the extremely few objective measurements of victimization data we have shows they are dramatically more likely to suffer at least some sorts of violent crime. This suggests that the survey data is likely flawed.
    - cantSpellSober 2y ago
      >> there is a known strong correlation between poverty and crime > Your comment has nothing to do with what's being discussed What? The paper itself notes that it does > younger people and those with lower incomes were far more likely to report being the victim of a violent crime than older and higher-income people
- adolph 2y ago
  The data explorer is backed by wide open APIs. The numbers are just a curl away: curl 'https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/estimate/state/TX/violent-crime?from=2012&to=2022 https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/estimate/state/TX/violent-cr...' -H 'accept: application/json, text/plain, /' {"results": {"Texas Violent Crime":{"2012":408.6,"2013":410.3,"2014":406.7,"2015":412.7,"2016":433.8,"2017":437.8,"2018":412.9,"2019":421.8,"2020":446.5,"2021":453,"2022":431.9}, "United States Violent Crime":{"2012":387.8,"2013":369.1,"2014":361.6,"2015":373.7,"2016":397.5,"2017":394.9,"2018":383.4,"2019":380.8,"2020":398.5,"2021":387,"2022":380.7}}} Docs are here: https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/docApi https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/docApi
BeetleB 2y ago
The fact that the general category of "violent crime victimization" appears to be equal for all 3 groups probably just means that there are huge differences in what gets reported. The article is very clear that they're focusing on what gets reported, and not what actually happened.

zaphar 2y ago

They come armed with statistical data. You come with a statement of fact that you don't support with any data. While I might be predisposed to believe you, you do not in fact offer any support for doing so.

tgv 2y ago

That came from self-reported survey data, a well-known source for manufacturing statistics.

cantSpellSober 2y ago

Can you share data to back that statement up please? I think what they were getting at is that crime is more closely linked to age and economic status than race > younger people and those with lower incomes were far more likely to report being the victim of a violent crime than older and higher-income people

reissbaker 2y ago
Not the OP, but this Wikipedia article seems like it does a decent job of covering the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...
- cantSpellSober 2y ago
  Which notes a similar point: > Researchers note that there are socioeconomic factors underlying these crime statistics, and that crime is often higher in low-income neighborhoods

ebiester 2y ago

I'm not sure that's true. Now, the white person may not end up being charged, or their punishment may be greatly reduced (due to race, class status, and access to council), but what makes you think that the police are less likely to get involved at the same level of violence?

underseacables 2y ago
I think it's possible there could be a bias against certain racial groups. An assumption that this group of people commits or does not commit crimes, higher or lower than other groups, and so that primes the interaction.

somenameforme 2y ago

Since multiple people asked for stats on this, I'm just putting it as a response to the parent instead of responding to any given individual. Here [1] they are. It's from 2018 because it seems like at some point the FBI chose to replace nice simple tables with some really horrible UX 'data explorer' that leaves me absolutely unable to find more recent data on the exact same stat. Anyhow, black Americans made up something like 40% (eyeballing) of total homicide victims, yet are only about 12% of the population. It's extremely disproportionate. [1] - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

bregma 2y ago
Ah, but there is a known strong correlation between poverty and crime, and strong correlation between race and poverty. Any conflation of correlation with causation between race and crime is exclusively an attempt to obfuscate a racist political stance.
- somenameforme 2y ago
  Your comment has nothing to do with what's being discussed. The self reported survey claims that black individuals have no higher chance of victimization than other groups. One of the extremely few objective measurements of victimization data we have shows they are dramatically more likely to suffer at least some sorts of violent crime. This suggests that the survey data is likely flawed.
  - cantSpellSober 2y ago
    >> there is a known strong correlation between poverty and crime > Your comment has nothing to do with what's being discussed What? The paper itself notes that it does > younger people and those with lower incomes were far more likely to report being the victim of a violent crime than older and higher-income people
adolph 2y ago
The data explorer is backed by wide open APIs. The numbers are just a curl away: curl 'https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/estimate/state/TX/violent-crime?from=2012&to=2022 https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/estimate/state/TX/violent-cr...' -H 'accept: application/json, text/plain, /' {"results": {"Texas Violent Crime":{"2012":408.6,"2013":410.3,"2014":406.7,"2015":412.7,"2016":433.8,"2017":437.8,"2018":412.9,"2019":421.8,"2020":446.5,"2021":453,"2022":431.9}, "United States Violent Crime":{"2012":387.8,"2013":369.1,"2014":361.6,"2015":373.7,"2016":397.5,"2017":394.9,"2018":383.4,"2019":380.8,"2020":398.5,"2021":387,"2022":380.7}}} Docs are here: https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/docApi https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/docApi

BeetleB 2y ago

The fact that the general category of "violent crime victimization" appears to be equal for all 3 groups probably just means that there are huge differences in what gets reported. The article is very clear that they're focusing on what gets reported, and not what actually happened.