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The EU model is basically "keep the peasants from rebelling while maintaining the aristocracy". Everything is stacked against class mobility in exchange for som

The EU model is basically "keep the peasants from rebelling while maintaining the aristocracy". Everything is stacked against class mobility in exchange for some safety nets.

mahmoudhossam 2y ago
Eastern Europe did get a lot of class mobility in the last 20-30 years though, this may be the case for the west.
FredPret 2y ago
I was shocked at the crazy taxes on middle class earners when I was in Europe. Now way these people build wealth long-term. And it’s kind of on par with the US COL-wise.
Sammi 2y ago
Except this is factually untrue. Social mobility is greater in europe than in the us: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/02/14/americans-overestimate-social-mobility-in-their-country https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/02/14/american... There's this false narrative about the US being the bastion of social mobility, but it just doesn't hold up to facts. Europe does much better on this.
- FredPret 2y ago
  That measurement method is skewed in favor of the European system where the wealth & income ladders start a bit higher and end much lower than in the US. If you measured improvements in net worth as well, and measured it by the number of dollars added to someone's bottom line instead of just what quintile someone is in, it would be IMO a more fair comparison. For example, (made up numbers ahead) let's compare two made-up people: A is in the bottom quintile earning say 20k EUR with a net worth stagnating at 0 EUR, and they then move up to the top quintile earning 80k EUR with a net worth of 20k EUR and growing. They pay heavy taxes on that 80k EUR so it's hard to grow their wealth. B is in the bottom quintile of the US, earning 20k USD. They make it up a couple of quintiles, but not quite to the top. They still end up earning 150k USD, and because they pay low tax, most of the 150k sticks around, giving them a net worth of say 50k USD and growing faster. A will give a better indicator of social mobility according to the Economist's method. But I'd much rather be B.
  - Sammi 2y ago
    You're quite literally making stuff up.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Just trying to illustrate a point, but feel free to carry on.

The EU model is basically "keep the peasants from rebelling while maintaining the aristocracy". Everything is stacked against class mobility in exchange for some safety nets.

mahmoudhossam 2y ago

Eastern Europe did get a lot of class mobility in the last 20-30 years though, this may be the case for the west.

FredPret 2y ago

I was shocked at the crazy taxes on middle class earners when I was in Europe. Now way these people build wealth long-term. And it’s kind of on par with the US COL-wise.

Sammi 2y ago

Except this is factually untrue. Social mobility is greater in europe than in the us: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/02/14/americans-overestimate-social-mobility-in-their-country https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/02/14/american... There's this false narrative about the US being the bastion of social mobility, but it just doesn't hold up to facts. Europe does much better on this.

FredPret 2y ago
That measurement method is skewed in favor of the European system where the wealth & income ladders start a bit higher and end much lower than in the US. If you measured improvements in net worth as well, and measured it by the number of dollars added to someone's bottom line instead of just what quintile someone is in, it would be IMO a more fair comparison. For example, (made up numbers ahead) let's compare two made-up people: A is in the bottom quintile earning say 20k EUR with a net worth stagnating at 0 EUR, and they then move up to the top quintile earning 80k EUR with a net worth of 20k EUR and growing. They pay heavy taxes on that 80k EUR so it's hard to grow their wealth. B is in the bottom quintile of the US, earning 20k USD. They make it up a couple of quintiles, but not quite to the top. They still end up earning 150k USD, and because they pay low tax, most of the 150k sticks around, giving them a net worth of say 50k USD and growing faster. A will give a better indicator of social mobility according to the Economist's method. But I'd much rather be B.
- Sammi 2y ago
  You're quite literally making stuff up.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Just trying to illustrate a point, but feel free to carry on.