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Who says that a totalitarian attitude is desirable?? Freedom of speech implies that expressing your opinions should not cost you your job.
by bjourne 3y ago
Who says that a totalitarian attitude is desirable?? Freedom of speech implies that expressing your opinions should not cost you your job.
- tekla 3y agoI was told that speech had consequences and anything but the Govt literally silencing you was ok for decades. Damn. I guess that NOW HN cares about free speech, after highly paid fellows get fired from their jobs for doing dumb shit
- theossuary 3y agoYou have it backwards. There's a huge backlash when somebody's fired for being racist, or homophobic, or transphobic. Now anti-authoritarian protestors are being doxxed, fired and arrested; yet I haven't heard a peep from those people who "believe in free speech."
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- themaninthedark 3y agoI don't know, bjourne has been pretty vocal and he keeps getting downvoted. I also believe they should be allowed to express their views at work and that is consistent with my views in the past.
- neverokay 3y agoThe issue with free speech historically or currently worldwide is that governments can silence, jail or kill you. It’s a civic issue, not business one.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- DangitBobby 3y agoMaybe a government can find a "legal" way to accomplish those illicit goals, which gives them an edge. But powerful entities like huge companies don't necessarily need to contort the law to accomplish their illicit goals. There are ways to launder responsibility for them through 3rd parties. Protecting people from the government itself is good, but not sufficient in the era of trillion dollar multinational companies.
- neverokay 3y agoYou are vaguely arguing that we’re living in fascists states.
- DangitBobby 3y agoI am overtly arguing that oppression doesn't originate solely from governments.
- cogman10 3y agoNo it does not and it never has. Freedom of speech is a protection from the government, not other citizens. And I suspect the only reason people take this view is because the speech is something they agree with. Would you, for example, feel like Google was being totalitarian if Hitler Hank hosted a sit in protest against the company for hiring people of color and he was subsequently fired?
- mistermann 3y agoSome people have read this (or know some of the history at least): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech Some people mistakenly believe that the first amendment is identical to the above; it is not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_Unite...
- polski-g 3y ago> Freedom of speech is a protection from the government No, that is the First Amendment. Freedom of speech is a much larger concept.
- bjourne 3y agoYes, it does. The right to free speech is not a right if exercising it costs you your livelihood. The idea that freedom of speech only restricts the government's actions is typical American myopia. George Washington didn't copyright freedom of expression and the US constitution is not the end all to human rights.
- cogman10 3y ago> The right to free speech is not a right if exercising it costs you your livelihood. This sort of free speech has never existed and frankly it would be preposterous for it to exist. A company couldn't fire a salesperson that went around telling potential customers "Hey, our product is garbage you should use our competitors"? A state employee couldn't be fired for lying to the races they don't like "You don't qualify for this, sorry". An employee couldn't be fired for sexually harassing coworkers because "Welp, free speech, can't stop Bill from telling Jill how much he wants to have sex with her". If we take this right to its natural conclusion, it would preclude other rights like the freedom of association.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- BobaFloutist 3y agoIs occupying your CEO's office until removed by law enforcement speech?
- archagon 3y agoWere all of the fired employees occupying the CEO's office?
- ThrowawayR2 3y agoHas the illiberal left not been smugly telling us "Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences" when others lost their jobs? They hardly have any right to complain when they are hoist by their own petard.
- krapp 3y agoOK cool. That doesn't explain why the right - which has been just as smugly insisting that freedom of speech must mean freedom from consequences - doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
- ThrowawayR2 3y agoI couldn't care less what the conservatives think. Their blatantly fake support of freedom of speech was always conditional and self-serving.
- krapp 3y agoAlmost everyone's support of freedom of speech and any freedom is conditional and self serving, that's just human nature. Why are you going out of your way to only complain about the "illiberal left?"
- ThrowawayR2 3y agoBecause 1) conservatives rarely bother to speak up on HN; they know they are quite unwelcome here and 2) the illiberal left claims to be allied with liberals and that's clearly false.
- krapp 3y agoConservatives speak up all the time on HN, and weirdly enough they sound exactly like you do, down to the inability to refer to the left without a pejorative.
- thebytefairy 3y agoThen we can argue they were not performing their job duties instead. How long should one be allowed to protest on the clock?