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What does the EU even do these days? Can't launch things to space, and gets salty that SpaceX is launching Sats for them, can't make shells for a war that liter

by tekla 2y ago

What does the EU even do these days? Can't launch things to space, and gets salty that SpaceX is launching Sats for them, can't make shells for a war that literally at their doorstep and relies on countries literally half a world away to do basically everything for them (US and SK), barely has a navy that can patrol waters literally next to them and has to rely on the US for boats. Has fewer Carriers than single nations and the ones that the UK has are Diesel because they couldn't afford nuclear power. What does the EU even do?

yokoprime 2y ago
Those are extremely arbitrary metrics stated without sources. Do better.
- tekla 2y ago
  Damn all these super arbitrary claims. Imagine having numbers to back them up. Oh wait Can't launch things to space, and gets salty that SpaceX is launching Sats for them, > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5 > Ariane 5 is a retired European heavy-lift space launch vehicle > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency > The ESA currently has only one operational launch vehicle, Vega EU can't launch their own Sats since they have no rockets that can launch anything that isn't a tinysat https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/04/27/live-coverage-spacex-to-launch-european-commissions-galileo-satellites-on-falcon-9-rocket-from-the-kennedy-space-center/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/04/27/live-coverage-spacex-t... Well that's embarrassing. can't make shells for a war that literally at their doorstep and relies on countries literally half a world away to do basically everything for them (US and SK), > https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20231205000300315 https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20231205000300315 > S. Korea indirectly supplied more 155-mm shells for Ukraine than all European countries combined barely has a navy that can patrol waters literally next to them and has to rely on the US for boats. Has fewer Carriers than single nations and the ones that the UK has are Diesel because they couldn't afford nuclear power. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Navy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Navy > The combined component strength of the naval forces of member states is some 514 commissioned warships. Of those in service, 4 are fleet carriers. Damn, smaller carrier fleets than entire countries. Do better when you want incredibly easy to find numbers. So what DOES the EU do?
  - bluGill 2y ago
    > SpaceX is launching Sats for them, Sats they are building. > can't make shells for a war that literally at their doorstep By they are making tanks and armored personal carriers. Just to name two things. > S. Korea indirectly supplied more 155-mm shells for Ukraine than all European countries combined S. Korea has a neighbor that they have reason to believe will invade if they don't have a good defense program. Thus S. Korea needs the proven ability to make enough shells to hold off an invasion even when there isn't one - if the invasion happens they will need those factories working overnight. The EU didn't think they needed that so they invested elsewhere. > has to rely on the US for boats. Many of the US navy boats are designed in Italy. Italy also builds a lot of boats. > barely has a navy that can patrol waters literally next to them and <snip> Has fewer Carriers than single nations They don't need them - the US is patrolling the oceans. If they have a problem in Kenya (random country I can spell) they will call the US to take care of it for them. The world is connected. The EU doesn't need to do those things you name. They do other things instead and buy from the US, Korea, Japan, New Zealand... , while those countries buy from them. Though I would agree the EU underfunded their military over many decades. However that is not the same as the EU building nothing.
adrian_b 2y ago
USA is great at business-to-business products, but there have passed many decades since the last time when I have seen a consumer product "Made in USA" that I would buy instead of an equivalent made elsewhere. Because I do not buy satellite launches, from the point of view of my personal needs the industrial production of USA appears weaker and less competitive than of most other developed countries. Even the DIY products that are competitive, which are not really consumer products, e.g. AMD CPUs, are only "Designed in USA", but "Diffused in Taiwan" and "Assembled in Malaysia".

by tekla 2y ago

yokoprime 2y ago

Those are extremely arbitrary metrics stated without sources. Do better.

tekla 2y ago
Damn all these super arbitrary claims. Imagine having numbers to back them up. Oh wait Can't launch things to space, and gets salty that SpaceX is launching Sats for them, > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5 > Ariane 5 is a retired European heavy-lift space launch vehicle > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency > The ESA currently has only one operational launch vehicle, Vega EU can't launch their own Sats since they have no rockets that can launch anything that isn't a tinysat https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/04/27/live-coverage-spacex-to-launch-european-commissions-galileo-satellites-on-falcon-9-rocket-from-the-kennedy-space-center/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/04/27/live-coverage-spacex-t... Well that's embarrassing. can't make shells for a war that literally at their doorstep and relies on countries literally half a world away to do basically everything for them (US and SK), > https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20231205000300315 https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20231205000300315 > S. Korea indirectly supplied more 155-mm shells for Ukraine than all European countries combined barely has a navy that can patrol waters literally next to them and has to rely on the US for boats. Has fewer Carriers than single nations and the ones that the UK has are Diesel because they couldn't afford nuclear power. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Navy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Navy > The combined component strength of the naval forces of member states is some 514 commissioned warships. Of those in service, 4 are fleet carriers. Damn, smaller carrier fleets than entire countries. Do better when you want incredibly easy to find numbers. So what DOES the EU do?
- bluGill 2y ago
  > SpaceX is launching Sats for them, Sats they are building. > can't make shells for a war that literally at their doorstep By they are making tanks and armored personal carriers. Just to name two things. > S. Korea indirectly supplied more 155-mm shells for Ukraine than all European countries combined S. Korea has a neighbor that they have reason to believe will invade if they don't have a good defense program. Thus S. Korea needs the proven ability to make enough shells to hold off an invasion even when there isn't one - if the invasion happens they will need those factories working overnight. The EU didn't think they needed that so they invested elsewhere. > has to rely on the US for boats. Many of the US navy boats are designed in Italy. Italy also builds a lot of boats. > barely has a navy that can patrol waters literally next to them and <snip> Has fewer Carriers than single nations They don't need them - the US is patrolling the oceans. If they have a problem in Kenya (random country I can spell) they will call the US to take care of it for them. The world is connected. The EU doesn't need to do those things you name. They do other things instead and buy from the US, Korea, Japan, New Zealand... , while those countries buy from them. Though I would agree the EU underfunded their military over many decades. However that is not the same as the EU building nothing.

adrian_b 2y ago

USA is great at business-to-business products, but there have passed many decades since the last time when I have seen a consumer product "Made in USA" that I would buy instead of an equivalent made elsewhere. Because I do not buy satellite launches, from the point of view of my personal needs the industrial production of USA appears weaker and less competitive than of most other developed countries. Even the DIY products that are competitive, which are not really consumer products, e.g. AMD CPUs, are only "Designed in USA", but "Diffused in Taiwan" and "Assembled in Malaysia".