3 ms·

> will require a warrant for more than seven days of location data The first matter is: what entitles automakers to keep any location data.

by mdp2021 3y ago

shadowgovt 3y ago
Being able to locate one's own vehicle is a common feature among modern cellphone equipped cars.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  > [location in case of theft] Well it has some definite drawbacks, does it not. Would it not be better to have custom positioning systems, with data stored in secure repositories?
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    As far as the law is concerned, GM's data center is a secure repository as long as they're following existing PII protection requirements. ... And it's not just theft, it's also "wow this parking lot is huge..."
    - mdp2021 3y ago
      > As far as the law is concerned, GM's data center is a secure repository Well, of course: I meant "a secure repository /for the user/" :) I.e.: you could trust the law (as well done and respected), or you could stay on the safe side. Taking a look around, I'd take the safer side. > "wow this parking lot is huge..." Like opening a trunk through feed waggling or radio control of windows for those who are prone to leaving open sunroofs during storms - at the cost of adding complexities and possibly exposure to faults and malice... The first violently blinking one being "no need to press a button to open the car anymore, proximity suffices". Everyone makes their own decisions on tradeoffs: the option - which they may like, which may leave them indifferent, which they may not want at all - should not be shoved in the throat of the users.
zoomablemind 3y ago
That OnStar button is a service, it needs location. Other mfgrs have some kind of remote assistance service too. Now, what if the owner have not subscribed?
- twodave 3y ago
  Why does it need to keep a long-term history, though? Isn't an ephemeral ping to get the current location enough? Or if you're trying for better resiliency, let it ping as often as you want but be responsible and only cache it for an hour or a day or whatever. Even a day is probably too long to be practical. They're not going to send help to a location ping from 18 hours ago...
- LegitShady 3y ago
  it doesn't need location history. there's no need to store any of that data.
tantalor 3y ago
For the same reason Apple or Google know where your phone is: they operate the services on it.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  With a definite difference that there is no need for location related services in a car. And with the important detail that the article reveals (see the quote) that they keep at least weeks worth of data - which does not sound necessary.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Because you are the product they sell to other people. The government privacy/rights exposure is just a side effect, it's not some governmental conspiracy. They want to sell you. Your location information, implied demographics, etc inform advertising and marketing. Even if they said no to the government, the government can either get it from the second-line databases that track you, or in sufficient cases, the three letter agencies certainly have all the information from either the automakers or, again, the next round of consumer information databases that buy the info from the auto companies.

> will require a warrant for more than seven days of location data The first matter is: what entitles automakers to keep any location data.

shadowgovt 3y ago

Being able to locate one's own vehicle is a common feature among modern cellphone equipped cars.

mdp2021 3y ago
> [location in case of theft] Well it has some definite drawbacks, does it not. Would it not be better to have custom positioning systems, with data stored in secure repositories?
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  As far as the law is concerned, GM's data center is a secure repository as long as they're following existing PII protection requirements. ... And it's not just theft, it's also "wow this parking lot is huge..."
  - mdp2021 3y ago
    > As far as the law is concerned, GM's data center is a secure repository Well, of course: I meant "a secure repository /for the user/" :) I.e.: you could trust the law (as well done and respected), or you could stay on the safe side. Taking a look around, I'd take the safer side. > "wow this parking lot is huge..." Like opening a trunk through feed waggling or radio control of windows for those who are prone to leaving open sunroofs during storms - at the cost of adding complexities and possibly exposure to faults and malice... The first violently blinking one being "no need to press a button to open the car anymore, proximity suffices". Everyone makes their own decisions on tradeoffs: the option - which they may like, which may leave them indifferent, which they may not want at all - should not be shoved in the throat of the users.

zoomablemind 3y ago

That OnStar button is a service, it needs location. Other mfgrs have some kind of remote assistance service too. Now, what if the owner have not subscribed?

twodave 3y ago
Why does it need to keep a long-term history, though? Isn't an ephemeral ping to get the current location enough? Or if you're trying for better resiliency, let it ping as often as you want but be responsible and only cache it for an hour or a day or whatever. Even a day is probably too long to be practical. They're not going to send help to a location ping from 18 hours ago...
LegitShady 3y ago
it doesn't need location history. there's no need to store any of that data.

tantalor 3y ago

For the same reason Apple or Google know where your phone is: they operate the services on it.

mdp2021 3y ago
With a definite difference that there is no need for location related services in a car. And with the important detail that the article reveals (see the quote) that they keep at least weeks worth of data - which does not sound necessary.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

Because you are the product they sell to other people. The government privacy/rights exposure is just a side effect, it's not some governmental conspiracy. They want to sell you. Your location information, implied demographics, etc inform advertising and marketing. Even if they said no to the government, the government can either get it from the second-line databases that track you, or in sufficient cases, the three letter agencies certainly have all the information from either the automakers or, again, the next round of consumer information databases that buy the info from the auto companies.