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If you want to settle for the Electrify America charging experience, sure. The plug on the end of the charger was never the main advantage that the supercharger

If you want to settle for the Electrify America charging experience, sure. The plug on the end of the charger was never the main advantage that the supercharger network brought to the table.

cj 2y ago
For the uninitiated, what is the main advantage?
- boringg 2y ago
  I'm going to a wild guess and that it is reliability.
- peteradio 2y ago
  I would guess a consistent and effective maintenance of equipment and decent payment system. I thought that the network was the only thing really going for Tesla, I hope everyone involved on this makes out well because I don't really care to trust some mom and pop to set the standards even though in general I really care about mom and pop.
- preinheimer 2y ago
  I don't own an EV. When I hear about Tesla and the Supercharger network what I hear about most is how easy it was to plan long trips. A road trip on gas is easy, there's a gas station in every town with a few thousand people, fast EV chargers aren't yet as common. So if your routing system understood its range, and where the charging stations where it was pretty seamless. Much better than the stuff from other EV makers. Less often I'd hear about the chargers working more often. e.g. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/electric-cars-are-doomed-if-fast-charger-reliability-doesnt-get-better/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/electric-cars-are-doome...
  - figers 2y ago
    and there are a lot of them. Usually 8-16 per supercharger chargers at a single location vs the few electrify America stations I'v seen to on the east coast that have only two chargers at the station. So I'm less worried charging at a Supercharger that all the chargers will be taken. It also tells you on the screen how many chargers are available at each location before you get there.
- SirSourdough 2y ago
  Deep integration with the car is the most difficult piece of the Supercharger system to achieve for any other charging network. They have the best in-car and in-app charging experience, with the best routing to chargers and scheduling tools. Most networks still require you to use an app or RFID card to start a charge, Tesla you just plug in. The other is probably just scale of the parent company in terms of being able to build out and service the network. They tend to have more prominent, nicer locations for their stations.
  - WorldMaker 2y ago
    CCS2 supports "just plug in to charge" as an optional feature so depending on your manufacturer and CCS Type 1 charger it worked some of the time. All the charger networks and manufacturers are now migrating to NACS hardware over (the ugly) CCS Type 1 and NACS requires that CCS2 optional feature (NACS uses Tesla designed hardware but CCS protocols/software) so most charger networks including Electrify America and most manufacturers moving forward past the current transition to NACS should all support "just plug in to charge". "Soon." Standardizing NACS was an interesting win for Tesla because their hardware design won out, but it was also a massive breach in their "moat" putting the other charging networks and other manufacturers on a much more equal footing with the charging story. On the one hand it makes direct dumb "bottom line" business sense why Tesla would stop investing in its own network with such a massive breach in their "moat" about to spill out and maybe equalize the playing field. Perhaps especially if you think you've already earned enough recognition for your brand that you don't need to maintain it long term, just maintain the facade and PR spin of it. On the other hand, with such a huge first mover advantage and what everyone knows was a respectably huge "moat", you'd think there would be pivots to take advantage of to bulwark other parts of the same moat and still maintain some other advantage along the way to the old adage that "Teslas are the easiest to charge". Gutting the department may truly be a short term gain for shareholder quarterly results traded for a long term mistake and the risk of the loss of that first mover advantage they worked so hard to earn. It's certainly fascinating to armchair quarterback what other options were in play here.
    - ulfw 2y ago
- tekla 2y ago
  I rented a Tesla and did a East Coast to West Coast journey in a week and the Tesla did all the work for me for charging planning. I had never driven a Tesla or any EV at that point and I figured it out in about 5 mins on how to drive and how to plan charging after playing with the computer. I didn't think about it at all, and a week later got the charging bill from the rental company and it was hilariously cheaper than gas. That's the advantage
- mingus88 2y ago
  The Electrify America experience is pulling into the far corner of a Walmart parking lot, and often waiting for one of the working units, or struggling for 10 minutes to even start one. The reliability is terrible and perhaps forcing VW to operate a charging network as a punishment does not lead to a good customer experience Tesla and Rivian network charger locations are usually in better spots than a Walmart. The chargers work the first time, at full speed and availability is always correct in the vehicle display.
- hedora 2y ago
  There's roughly a 25% chance the credit card reader / app will incorrectly reject payment (broken or not) on competitors' stations, and roughly a 10% chance the charger will be broken. There's a 1% chance it'll feed bad voltage to your car. There's also a 5% chance you'll have to make a phone call to arrange payment. Of the dozens of issues that I've had across a few different cities, I think the problem was related to the connector once. If they'd simply put standard vending machine credit card readers on them and not bothered with apps, they'd have cut their downtime by at least 75%.
mdgrech23 2y ago
I feel like this kind of attitude is where we go wrong as engineers. We spend so much time and energy bickering over and creating the perfect solution when sometimes you just need to ship and provide a solution.
- callalex 2y ago
  I agree that sometimes things are either “a solution” or “not a solution”. EV chargers that do not charge more than half the time are still squarely in the “not a solution” category.

If you want to settle for the Electrify America charging experience, sure. The plug on the end of the charger was never the main advantage that the supercharger network brought to the table.

cj 2y ago

For the uninitiated, what is the main advantage?

boringg 2y ago
I'm going to a wild guess and that it is reliability.
peteradio 2y ago
I would guess a consistent and effective maintenance of equipment and decent payment system. I thought that the network was the only thing really going for Tesla, I hope everyone involved on this makes out well because I don't really care to trust some mom and pop to set the standards even though in general I really care about mom and pop.
preinheimer 2y ago
I don't own an EV. When I hear about Tesla and the Supercharger network what I hear about most is how easy it was to plan long trips. A road trip on gas is easy, there's a gas station in every town with a few thousand people, fast EV chargers aren't yet as common. So if your routing system understood its range, and where the charging stations where it was pretty seamless. Much better than the stuff from other EV makers. Less often I'd hear about the chargers working more often. e.g. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/electric-cars-are-doomed-if-fast-charger-reliability-doesnt-get-better/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/electric-cars-are-doome...
- figers 2y ago
  and there are a lot of them. Usually 8-16 per supercharger chargers at a single location vs the few electrify America stations I'v seen to on the east coast that have only two chargers at the station. So I'm less worried charging at a Supercharger that all the chargers will be taken. It also tells you on the screen how many chargers are available at each location before you get there.
SirSourdough 2y ago
Deep integration with the car is the most difficult piece of the Supercharger system to achieve for any other charging network. They have the best in-car and in-app charging experience, with the best routing to chargers and scheduling tools. Most networks still require you to use an app or RFID card to start a charge, Tesla you just plug in. The other is probably just scale of the parent company in terms of being able to build out and service the network. They tend to have more prominent, nicer locations for their stations.
- WorldMaker 2y ago
  CCS2 supports "just plug in to charge" as an optional feature so depending on your manufacturer and CCS Type 1 charger it worked some of the time. All the charger networks and manufacturers are now migrating to NACS hardware over (the ugly) CCS Type 1 and NACS requires that CCS2 optional feature (NACS uses Tesla designed hardware but CCS protocols/software) so most charger networks including Electrify America and most manufacturers moving forward past the current transition to NACS should all support "just plug in to charge". "Soon." Standardizing NACS was an interesting win for Tesla because their hardware design won out, but it was also a massive breach in their "moat" putting the other charging networks and other manufacturers on a much more equal footing with the charging story. On the one hand it makes direct dumb "bottom line" business sense why Tesla would stop investing in its own network with such a massive breach in their "moat" about to spill out and maybe equalize the playing field. Perhaps especially if you think you've already earned enough recognition for your brand that you don't need to maintain it long term, just maintain the facade and PR spin of it. On the other hand, with such a huge first mover advantage and what everyone knows was a respectably huge "moat", you'd think there would be pivots to take advantage of to bulwark other parts of the same moat and still maintain some other advantage along the way to the old adage that "Teslas are the easiest to charge". Gutting the department may truly be a short term gain for shareholder quarterly results traded for a long term mistake and the risk of the loss of that first mover advantage they worked so hard to earn. It's certainly fascinating to armchair quarterback what other options were in play here.
  - ulfw 2y ago
tekla 2y ago
I rented a Tesla and did a East Coast to West Coast journey in a week and the Tesla did all the work for me for charging planning. I had never driven a Tesla or any EV at that point and I figured it out in about 5 mins on how to drive and how to plan charging after playing with the computer. I didn't think about it at all, and a week later got the charging bill from the rental company and it was hilariously cheaper than gas. That's the advantage
mingus88 2y ago
The Electrify America experience is pulling into the far corner of a Walmart parking lot, and often waiting for one of the working units, or struggling for 10 minutes to even start one. The reliability is terrible and perhaps forcing VW to operate a charging network as a punishment does not lead to a good customer experience Tesla and Rivian network charger locations are usually in better spots than a Walmart. The chargers work the first time, at full speed and availability is always correct in the vehicle display.
hedora 2y ago
There's roughly a 25% chance the credit card reader / app will incorrectly reject payment (broken or not) on competitors' stations, and roughly a 10% chance the charger will be broken. There's a 1% chance it'll feed bad voltage to your car. There's also a 5% chance you'll have to make a phone call to arrange payment. Of the dozens of issues that I've had across a few different cities, I think the problem was related to the connector once. If they'd simply put standard vending machine credit card readers on them and not bothered with apps, they'd have cut their downtime by at least 75%.

mdgrech23 2y ago

I feel like this kind of attitude is where we go wrong as engineers. We spend so much time and energy bickering over and creating the perfect solution when sometimes you just need to ship and provide a solution.

callalex 2y ago
I agree that sometimes things are either “a solution” or “not a solution”. EV chargers that do not charge more than half the time are still squarely in the “not a solution” category.