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He's controversial because numerous times his ego has so severely clouded his judgemental that he refuses to see egregious bugs in his programs for what they ar

He's controversial because numerous times his ego has so severely clouded his judgemental that he refuses to see egregious bugs in his programs for what they are. Just one example: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-311900864 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-... The "people hate him because he makes new stuff" narrative is just more ego-protecting cope. Many developers of other new systems are widely respected and appreciated because their stuff works and they stay humble. Wireguard and Pipewire devs don't get hate poured on them in HN discussions because their shit works, solves problems people have, and because they know how to deal with people.

NekkoDroid 3y ago
> Just one example: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment- https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-... 1. He gave a clear reason why it is how it is 2. He realizes it is/might be frustrating 3. even `adduser` will not allow it by default 4. The issue that it still runs the unit even with config errors has been addressed: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/bb28e68477a3a39796e4999a6cbc6ac6345a9159 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/bb28e68477a3a39796... (~2 weeks after the issue was opened)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- throw0101b 3y ago
  > 3. even `adduser` will not allow it by default 5. useradd does allow it (as noted in a comment). 6. Local users, and the utilities that create them, are not the only source, there things like LDAP and AD. 7. POSIX allows it: * https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-312456526 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-...
- lupusreal 3y ago
  His reason, although clear, is also plainly wrong. Such usernames although bizarre may be encountered by SystemD so it shouldn't break when it sees them. Computer programs, particularly important ones, should be conservative in what they emit and liberal with what they accept and that means not breaking when they encounter weird but technically permissible usernames. His response should have been "Golly, that's a weird username, I didn't think that was possible" and then fix the bug.
  - 4star3star 3y ago
    There is a certain personality type that likes to reimagine that their original thinking was not flawed, even when presented with a detail that they did not incorporate into their original thinking. If the detail had been in their awareness from the start, they would have arrived at a different position, but they are bound to a strict sense of linearity for reasons inexplicable to me except for ego protection.
  - alserio 3y ago
    Disclaimer: I know nothing about the particular bug. Postel's Law has its tradeoffs, and its fuzzy lines are a nice place for security issues to arise.
    - lupusreal 3y ago
      For sure, there are limits. In this particular case, maybe we say that SystemD shouldn't support weird usernames beginning with numbers, but the other half of the law should still apply. The conservative emission would be logging an error message, not running that unit file as root.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    Alternatively, if, like he says in the comments of that bug, he really means that SystemD shouldn't support systems that allow such usernames, then he should ensure SystemD won't run on such systems. Silently doing the wrong thing is not a good thing, especially when "doing the wrong thing" is running stuff as root that wasn't supposed to run as root.
magicalhippo 3y ago
Or in Linus Torvalds' words[1]: It does become a problem when you have a system service developer who thinks the universe revolves around him, and nobody else matters, and people sending him bug-reports are annoyances that should be ignored rather than acknowledged and fixed. At that point, it's a problem. [1]: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/580 https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/580
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  But even then, system service developers don't try to 'own the whole world' so to speak and so they do need to play nicely with others. Mr. Poopering philosophy is the minute a dependencies maintainer becomes a thorn in his side - he absorbs that project into systemd. The distribution packagers follow like starving dogs on a hunt
  - j0057 3y ago
    > Mr. Poopering This is childish and petty, I suggest you delete your account.
    - etc-hosts 3y ago
      You can't delete your HN account.
      - j0057 3y ago
        Interesting! IANAL, but I think this should be basic functionality, ever since the recent-ish European and Californian privacy regulations. Although I think a quick e-mail to hn@ycombinator.com would suffice.
        Aerbil313 3y ago
        Would it really? Asking cause genuinely curious, literally the only online forum I can't remove my past public information from is HN.

NekkoDroid 3y ago

> Just one example: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment- https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-... 1. He gave a clear reason why it is how it is 2. He realizes it is/might be frustrating 3. even `adduser` will not allow it by default 4. The issue that it still runs the unit even with config errors has been addressed: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/bb28e68477a3a39796e4999a6cbc6ac6345a9159 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/bb28e68477a3a39796... (~2 weeks after the issue was opened)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
throw0101b 3y ago
> 3. even `adduser` will not allow it by default 5. useradd does allow it (as noted in a comment). 6. Local users, and the utilities that create them, are not the only source, there things like LDAP and AD. 7. POSIX allows it: * https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-312456526 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-...
lupusreal 3y ago
His reason, although clear, is also plainly wrong. Such usernames although bizarre may be encountered by SystemD so it shouldn't break when it sees them. Computer programs, particularly important ones, should be conservative in what they emit and liberal with what they accept and that means not breaking when they encounter weird but technically permissible usernames. His response should have been "Golly, that's a weird username, I didn't think that was possible" and then fix the bug.
- 4star3star 3y ago
  There is a certain personality type that likes to reimagine that their original thinking was not flawed, even when presented with a detail that they did not incorporate into their original thinking. If the detail had been in their awareness from the start, they would have arrived at a different position, but they are bound to a strict sense of linearity for reasons inexplicable to me except for ego protection.
- alserio 3y ago
  Disclaimer: I know nothing about the particular bug. Postel's Law has its tradeoffs, and its fuzzy lines are a nice place for security issues to arise.
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    For sure, there are limits. In this particular case, maybe we say that SystemD shouldn't support weird usernames beginning with numbers, but the other half of the law should still apply. The conservative emission would be logging an error message, not running that unit file as root.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  Alternatively, if, like he says in the comments of that bug, he really means that SystemD shouldn't support systems that allow such usernames, then he should ensure SystemD won't run on such systems. Silently doing the wrong thing is not a good thing, especially when "doing the wrong thing" is running stuff as root that wasn't supposed to run as root.

magicalhippo 3y ago

Or in Linus Torvalds' words[1]: It does become a problem when you have a system service developer who thinks the universe revolves around him, and nobody else matters, and people sending him bug-reports are annoyances that should be ignored rather than acknowledged and fixed. At that point, it's a problem. [1]: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/580 https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/580

calvinmorrison 3y ago
But even then, system service developers don't try to 'own the whole world' so to speak and so they do need to play nicely with others. Mr. Poopering philosophy is the minute a dependencies maintainer becomes a thorn in his side - he absorbs that project into systemd. The distribution packagers follow like starving dogs on a hunt
- j0057 3y ago
  > Mr. Poopering This is childish and petty, I suggest you delete your account.
  - etc-hosts 3y ago
    You can't delete your HN account.
    - j0057 3y ago
      Interesting! IANAL, but I think this should be basic functionality, ever since the recent-ish European and Californian privacy regulations. Although I think a quick e-mail to hn@ycombinator.com would suffice.
      - Aerbil313 3y ago
        Would it really? Asking cause genuinely curious, literally the only online forum I can't remove my past public information from is HN.