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The comment I was replying to talked about Jewish in israel. They claimed that most of Jews in israel are from Middle East which is wrong and the link shows tha

The comment I was replying to talked about Jewish in israel. They claimed that most of Jews in israel are from Middle East which is wrong and the link shows that. See the table about parental ancestors.

ido 2y ago
I am talking about Jews in Israel. They are a bit more than half Mizrahi/Sephardi/Beta-Israel (not European) and a bit less than half Ashkenazi (European). The vast majority of Sephardi and Mezrahi in Israel are from what are now muslim countries in the Middle East. Together with 20% of the population that are Muslim or Christian Palestinians people of middle-eastern descent comprise well over 50% of the population (~60%).
- runarberg 2y ago
  I went digging around for numbers in these wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population These articles agree that Jews of European ancestry comprise around 44.2% vs 44.9% of Middle Eastern and North African (MENA) ancestry. The study that gave these numbers admitted on having methodological limitations, so it may be undercounting MENA ancestry. Another interesting statistic is the paternal ancestral origin of Israeli Jews, with 37% having Israeli paternal origin, 34.6% European, American or Oceanic, and only 27.9% having Asian or African. So at least for the last couple of generations, a plurality of immigrants of of European descent. I’m sorry, but I’m not finding the well over 50% statistic. What is also interesting to me is the lack of official statistics from the Israeli government about this ethnic brake down, especially since they make distinctions between Jews and Arabs, which kind of implies—at least to my ears—Arab Jews should not exist. To my ears Israeli culture fancies it self as European (being a member of UEFA, partaking in Eurovision, etc.). It really looks to me like Israel has made an effort and succeeded in stripping Middle Eastern Jews of their identity[1]. A major tell sign is how Jews of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry speak Hebrew, not Arabic, despite the latter both being a minority language spoken in Israel, and despite the latter being the language of their ancestors. Colonizers often do stunts like these when absorbing the colonized population into their own culture. 1: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-the-mizrahim https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-th...
  - ido 2y ago
    If 44.9% (or more) of Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, and 20% of Israel’s entire population are Palestinian Arabs (I.e. also of Middle Eastern descent) then more than 50% of the entire population of the country (Jews + non-Jews) are of Middle Eastern descent. And the biggest ethnic grouping (if you choose to group them that way, as all such groupings are somewhat arbitrary) are Middle Eastern Jews. And I’m sorry but it just sounds like you’ve never lived in Israel or even visited for an extended period of time. Aside from the relatively recent immigrants from the former Soviet Union (starting from the 90s) Jews of all backgrounds speak primarily Hebrew, whether Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, or whatever. Aside from some ultra orthodox you will also not find anyone under 80 speaking Yiddish.
    - runarberg 2y ago
      I see, however I was under the impression that Jews in Arabic countries (including Palestine) spoke primarily Arabic, and it was only after they migrated (or were otherwise absorbed into) Israel when they converted to Hebrew. And that the modern Hebrew language was a Zionist effort (a European colonial enterprise) to convert all immigrants to Israel to Hebrew speakers. So even though today most Israeli Jews speak Hebrew, the only reason for that is the colonial prospects of European settlers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Arabic_dialects#Present_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Arabic_dialects#Present_...
      - tptacek 2y ago
        It is hard to understand the point you're trying to make here. Israeli Jewish people of Iraqi origin are MENA people, not "colonial Europeans". I don't know that trying to sort out whether Hebrew is European or not is an especially productive enterprise.
        racional 2y ago
        Israeli Jewish people of Iraqi origin are MENA people, not "colonial Europeans." I'd recommend you also start reading more carefully, please. This (the idea that "MENA are European") is very clearly not what runarberg is saying. Nor are they even remotely suggesting that "Hebrew is European".

ido 2y ago

I am talking about Jews in Israel. They are a bit more than half Mizrahi/Sephardi/Beta-Israel (not European) and a bit less than half Ashkenazi (European). The vast majority of Sephardi and Mezrahi in Israel are from what are now muslim countries in the Middle East. Together with 20% of the population that are Muslim or Christian Palestinians people of middle-eastern descent comprise well over 50% of the population (~60%).

runarberg 2y ago
I went digging around for numbers in these wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Population These articles agree that Jews of European ancestry comprise around 44.2% vs 44.9% of Middle Eastern and North African (MENA) ancestry. The study that gave these numbers admitted on having methodological limitations, so it may be undercounting MENA ancestry. Another interesting statistic is the paternal ancestral origin of Israeli Jews, with 37% having Israeli paternal origin, 34.6% European, American or Oceanic, and only 27.9% having Asian or African. So at least for the last couple of generations, a plurality of immigrants of of European descent. I’m sorry, but I’m not finding the well over 50% statistic. What is also interesting to me is the lack of official statistics from the Israeli government about this ethnic brake down, especially since they make distinctions between Jews and Arabs, which kind of implies—at least to my ears—Arab Jews should not exist. To my ears Israeli culture fancies it self as European (being a member of UEFA, partaking in Eurovision, etc.). It really looks to me like Israel has made an effort and succeeded in stripping Middle Eastern Jews of their identity[1]. A major tell sign is how Jews of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry speak Hebrew, not Arabic, despite the latter both being a minority language spoken in Israel, and despite the latter being the language of their ancestors. Colonizers often do stunts like these when absorbing the colonized population into their own culture. 1: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-the-mizrahim https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/20/invention-of-th...
- ido 2y ago
  If 44.9% (or more) of Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, and 20% of Israel’s entire population are Palestinian Arabs (I.e. also of Middle Eastern descent) then more than 50% of the entire population of the country (Jews + non-Jews) are of Middle Eastern descent. And the biggest ethnic grouping (if you choose to group them that way, as all such groupings are somewhat arbitrary) are Middle Eastern Jews. And I’m sorry but it just sounds like you’ve never lived in Israel or even visited for an extended period of time. Aside from the relatively recent immigrants from the former Soviet Union (starting from the 90s) Jews of all backgrounds speak primarily Hebrew, whether Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, or whatever. Aside from some ultra orthodox you will also not find anyone under 80 speaking Yiddish.
  - runarberg 2y ago
    I see, however I was under the impression that Jews in Arabic countries (including Palestine) spoke primarily Arabic, and it was only after they migrated (or were otherwise absorbed into) Israel when they converted to Hebrew. And that the modern Hebrew language was a Zionist effort (a European colonial enterprise) to convert all immigrants to Israel to Hebrew speakers. So even though today most Israeli Jews speak Hebrew, the only reason for that is the colonial prospects of European settlers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Arabic_dialects#Present_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Arabic_dialects#Present_...
    - tptacek 2y ago
      It is hard to understand the point you're trying to make here. Israeli Jewish people of Iraqi origin are MENA people, not "colonial Europeans". I don't know that trying to sort out whether Hebrew is European or not is an especially productive enterprise.
      - racional 2y ago
        Israeli Jewish people of Iraqi origin are MENA people, not "colonial Europeans." I'd recommend you also start reading more carefully, please. This (the idea that "MENA are European") is very clearly not what runarberg is saying. Nor are they even remotely suggesting that "Hebrew is European".